EP045: Danijela Isailović, Corporate Communication Specialist from Serbia

Sanja Milosavljević: Good day, good people. My name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I will be your host today. You are watching the Mondopreneur podcast, a podcast that deals with entrepreneurship, promotion of entrepreneurship, promotion of women’s entrepreneurship. We are also trying to highlight some problems that are common, especially problems related to last year that hit us all simultaneously around the world. This whole project is supported by the American Embassy in Belgrade in Serbia, and thanks to them we can really hear the stories of the most interesting people, so today we will listen to Danijela Isailović who is my dear friend whom I know for years, and in fact sport united us and not business. I will enjoy it and I hope you will enjoy it, too. Hi Daniela, how are you?

Danijela Isailović: Hello Sanja, thanks for the invitation, I’m fine. I’m glad I met you in the studio where we’re doing this interview

Sanja Milosavljević: I’d like to watch you play table tennis one more time. Since I, in that respect – I have two left hands.

Danijela Isailović: I’m sure it will happen, you will watch me and Pedja play table tennis, but the gym, in the form it used to be, when you would bring us cakes and cheese rolls to eat at the gym, will never happen again, but for table tennis, I promise.

Sanja Milosavljević: Ah, that was a specific situation, a specific team of people that Pedja gathered around him. Would you please introduce yourself to us, tell us where you are from, what you do now, what is your educational background, does formal education have anything to do with what you do today, and how did your professional development path go?

Danijela Isailović: I am the Manager of the Renewable Energy Sources Association of Serbia, which was founded in March this year with the help and support of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development. We are a classic business association that brings together all private companies that deal with green energy and our goal is to connect businesses to improve the business climate in Serbia, to promote renewable energy sources, to raise awareness. So, in just few months of existence, we have made fantastic successes, we have signed an agreement with the Ministry of Mining and Energy, our number of members is increasing, we have a large number of pending applications, we are very popular in the region, we are invited to various conferences to talk, so we indeed, in a few months we left a significant footprint in the green industry of both Serbia and the region and we are very satisfied. As for me personally, I am a journalist by profession, and a journalist who loves the printed media, still occasionally write for “Nedeljnik”. Now I write environmental columns and energy topics. Earlier, I used to be much more involved in politics and security. So, I graduated from Political Science, since I have been dealing with renewable energy sources for almost a decade, I have needed an upgrade in education. It often happened to me at meetings and conferences that they asked me if I was a lawyer or an engineer by profession and when I would say journalist it was like, “Hm, good”. But then, over time, I realized that I need an upgrade, so I enrolled in a master’s degree program in Environmental Policy, so I hope soon I will be a master of Environmental Policy, I will have that formal green knowledge, and green is definitely my commitment.

Sanja Milosavljević: You said that nicely. Green education. I mean, I really like the green economy in general and the circular economy, I like everything that has to do with ecology and green, because I really see a future in it, as our resources are limited, we really used them a lot and threw them away in vain and now it’s time to either use it wisely or to find some new sources of energy.

Danijela Isailović: Well, sustainable development is the only way to have a sustainable and more or less healthy planet, or at least to stop its further deterioration, which certainly happens with the consequences of climate change, global warming, pollution and so the circular economy, sustainable development, renewable sources, the energy I am working on, is one of the seventeen goals of sustainable development and in fact they permeate at least seven. So green energy and renewable energy sources are actually recognized, perhaps with recycling, as one of the most reliable and measurable ways to fight climate change and so when they say that in 2050 we must have zero emissions or that in 2040 something that is set as a national Serbia’s goal is to have 40% of green energy, it just shows how much renewable energy sources can contribute and how measurable they are, while everything else is – some categories are simple and some sustainable development goals are not exact, just equal rights for all or the right to water, the right to climate, these are some general categories and belong to human rights, while green energy is something that is very measurable and it is possible to calculate how much percentage it takes in electricity in a certain country, how much in heating, how much in traffic.

Sanja Milosavljević: And, do that economy and the future – we know that without profit, without profitability, there is no economy. I mean, that’s the first and foremost thing, so is there a profit in the green economy?

Danijela Isailović: Well of course there is, no one works on-

Sanja Milosavljević: No, because I’m sorry to interrupt you, but sometimes that can be one of the arguments, like, is that much – is it enough? Is that profit enough?

Danijela Isailović: So, the profit is slow. It’s not a business from day to day and someone has to invest for years and wait, wait, wait and invest enough to make it pay off. Here I will give examples from Serbia. We, when we met, and that was some 2013-2014, so the project I worked on has been developing for 3-4 years. So, since 2010. It was officially opened in 2018. I mean in a country like Serbia, the project has been developing for 10 years. That project, for example, costs 90 million euros. While the loan is being paid off, while that expensive wind turbine is being paid for, only for some maybe 10 or more years will the profit for the investor come. So, it is a game of big numbers, not everyone can invest in it, only those who are ready to take risks and who are ready to wait for that profit will survive. Those who think that it will be invested today for tomorrow, they should deal with the resale of apartments, for example.

Sanja Milosavljević: For example, yes, yes – there is a quick profit. Especially with these real estate market prices. And well, how come you, from journalism in general and I know that you worked in politics and the chronicle, so some difficult topics, which are certainly our everyday life but are difficult topics, you have to endure it all and put it into words. How come you started working in politics and in the chronicle editorial?

Danijela Isailović: Well, that may not be a surprise. When I was in college, when I enrolled at the Faculty of Political Sciences, I said that I would be a sports journalist and how I would follow Wimbledon, and I would travel and so on, and that I would meet Partizan footballers and all that, but then in time you understand what political science and political science and sociology are and over time- I was an excellent reporter in the beginning, but when I got a job, the editors very quickly gave me to follow first the City Assembly, although it is normal when a young journalist starts he goes to the farmers market and I got the City Assembly right away, which means they recognized that talent of mine or some political knowledge and then soon I was transferred to a big political column. When I did that, it was the 2000s and there were really a lot of dynamic events, the assassination of the Prime Minister, political changes, a lot of extraditions to the Hague tribunal, a referendum, the separation of state, Kosovo, and those are difficult topics but they make you an adrenaline junkie. And especially the chronicle was then – and still is, relevant today. Different clans, different mafias and so in general, I wanted to get out of that world of that type of journalism, I was-

Sanja Milosavljević: And why, sorry? To me, when you talk like this, it’s not a job for a woman for me. It’s a job for – it would be ideal if something like that didn’t exist, if we didn’t have to deal with it at all, how do you break out and say I can’t, that adrenaline – and how long does it take for that adrenaline to decrease?

Danijela Isailović: Well, the adrenaline doesn’t decrease that much, but sometimes you wish you had a free weekend, and those events – whether it’s an arrest, whether it’s a murder, whether it’s an Assembly session, they don’t look at whether it’s a holiday and whether it’s a weekend. Then you have to take a break, and then – we all know that journalists are modestly paid in Serbia and that the profession is quite degraded and even more degraded since the period when I stopped being active in daily journalism. So, it was a natural way of growing up and there were a lot of offers from international institutions such as OEPS, the Council of Europe, and little by little I wanted to move on to something else – whether it’s PR, marketing, some consulting, and renewable energy sources happened by accident. And that is from the era of journalism. It was Sunday and I hated everything I had to do that week while my friends were going to the pool. It was summer and I was getting ready for work and “Zikina šarenica“was on the TV. And it was broadcasted from Kovacica, the municipality of Kovacica, which I knew at the time was in Vojvodina, but nothing more than that. And the president of the municipality, such a direct man, says that Kovacica has everything, has new pools, has wonderful strudels, has wonderful people, a multiethnic municipality, and now Zika asks him if there are more Slovaks, Serbs and all that, and he said we have an Eskimo. And at that moment, it attracts my attention as he seems to be the only Eskimo in Serbia, living in Kovacica. And there-

Sanja Milosavljević: It is a fun-fact, I am sorry, it is a fun-fact.

Danijela Isailović: Yes, yes, yes, completely. I notice it anyway. And now, when you work in the editorial office in a daily newspaper, it is a collegium and it is more or less the same way. First, colleagues suggest what their idea is – an interview, some exclusive information, and then if there is nothing to add, then the editors say theirs. And I suggested that story at the collegium, where they looked at me palely because they expected me to tell them that Ratko Mladic would be arrested that day, or they located him, or something like that. They just needed an effective cover page. And my editor Svetomir Marjanović asked me, like: “Daki, are you okay?” And that was that. However, after a few days, he told me to take the car and go chase the Eskimo. Something tickled them in that story. I also went to the municipality of Kovacica and looked for Eskimo – of course to the mayor and in various local communities. And there I met wonderful people. They would literally stop when they met me, the lady would get off the bike, put her bike aside and go with us to look for a man. I think that man also exists, of course he has a Serbian name and surname, but he was disappointed in the Serbs and Slobodan Milosevic and he officially changed his name and surname to Olaf Olsen. And at the public census, he declared himself as an Eskimo, of the Eskimo religion. I chased him too, chased him, in the end I found him in a village and it was good, to shorten the story about the Eskimo, but he is certainly important, and after a while my friends who were representatives of the Belgian investor who started the development of the wind farm in Kovacica and Alibunar, where I also worked. They started building wind farms and got stuck in communication with the local community and then they remembered, as who knows Kovacica, roughly the one who has the status of an honorary citizen because that is the only time that Kovacica was on the front page of the newspaper and little by little… for three months, six months, first to deal with the local community and then to deal with state institutions, then PR, then development, and event management so that is … interesting.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yeah, so I think we met while you were working for Elicio? How do you pronounce that?

Danijela Isailović: Well, it is pronounced, Elicio.

Sanja Milosavljević: Elicio, yes. It was so interesting for me too, because it was completely new for me that a foreign company comes in and invests and builds wind farms that were normal for me until then, but somewhere else, as soon as you cross the border with Hungary, Romania, or you go to Greece or wherever, you see those wind farms as something completely normal, and for us, for me in Serbia, it was like I don’t know – the eighth wonder of the world. So how did it go? What did it look like? What were the challenges from getting a permit to digging the first shovel, right? How to start building it?

Danijela Isailović: Well, in a way, when that first shovel, the first excavator, the first crane happens, it’s already – you are a successful company, a successful project that provided financing and it is known that you will build – there were troubles until then. So the trouble was until then, only at the end of 2014 we got a modern Energy law, and in 2016 some regulations that satisfied international financial institutions such as the IDFB, IFC, but I think it’s such a complex business, which, in our case represents a cross between the competencies of the municipality if we talk about planning, that regulation initiates permits, the ministry also issues certain permits, so it was hundreds of conditions and consents and also permits, but we got them all and showed that it is possible in Serbia without any corrupt actions, but really like the law and international standards because it is a business that requires compliance with domestic laws but also international standards. First of all, when it comes to environmental protection, we all do a study of monitoring the impact on the environment, but we also do some studies according to international standards, we do noise measurements, we control birds, bats, so nothing is left to chance. And that is why it was additionally slower, not only because of Serbian procedures which are not simple but also not a nuclear physics either, but there are also some international requirements that in order to get a loan from international financial institutions you have to meet certain standards.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, OK. I mean, is it really slow abroad or is it just like that here? One decade? Let’s see where we stand, to see if it’s a standard procedure or a standard time frame or if it’s something that is up to us.

Danijela Isailović: No, the first phase was a challenge, everywhere. So, let’s just say the first round of investments in Germany, Denmark happened 30 years ago. The first wind farm built on the Greek island of Chitos had 700 kilowatts and then came some bigger wind farms, but that first round of investment everywhere was that … was to say a little sluggish. Now the procedures in Europe are, to say, a bit faster, but it is simply a complex job and when you have an electric power facility on 3700 hectares, you cannot get a permit for a day or a month. It needs a good legal basis, so that everything works to meet the standards concerning environmental protection and fire protection, and to respect water rules, so that these are not simple jobs and the procedures in our country are correct, for now. They are somewhat faster than they were before – primarily due to the electronic procedure and the issuance of building permits in electronic form, and secondly, the people who work have also learned. In the beginning, there was a fear, and I understand those people, that is, in our case, mostly women who work on permits. It’s hard to give permission for something you’ve never seen in your life.

Sanja Milosavljević: Good, understandable…

Danijela Isailović: That, that is- and you don’t know how it works. And then you protect yourself and ask for some maximum conditions of consent just to protect yourself. Because what if it falls or something, there’s always that-

Sanja Milosavljević: When I see them that tall…

Danijela Isailović: Yes, and I climbed up on one of them.

Sanja Milosavljević: Really? How does it look like-

Danijela Isailović: Well, to me, it was fantastic, I’m not afraid of heights. I climbed in Belgium for the first time in 2015 when we had team buildings there. And that was just such a fantastic feeling for me. However, when we were there, we didn’t even know what wind farms were, and then we took pictures beside each turbine. And that was it – now when I look at Facebook, it brings back memories to the International Wind Day 2015-2016, we took pictures wherever we see the turbine. And now each of our wind turbines in Serbia is bigger, so to speak, more beautiful. Well, I mean, the feeling is, let’s say – I climbed for the last time on the wind turbine in Alibunar at some 100 meters high, it’s great – South Banat at the palm of my hand. The day was fantastic like some mild-coming twilight. There were a lot of stinky bugs up there. Generally- yes, yes, we complained that we had a lot of stinky bugs, and then I saw from the upper level what it means when you open that gondola cap on the turbine. So that’s a great feeling. Now, whoever is afraid of heights shouldn’t do it, it’s a bit like that- I mean, interesting, but it takes a little strength, you have to climb a ladder-

Sanja Milosavljević: It’s like a sport.

Danijela Isailović: Sport, sport, I remembered that. There is that elevator basket, there are ladders and, as you approach the top, the space narrows and then it gets a little warmer. And it’s a great thing that you can’t take anything with you, you can take the phone in a pocket where it won’t fall down, and that’s it.

Sanja Milosavljević: That’s good, yes. Those are the memories for a lifetime. And how many turbines do we need, or how many wind farms in Serbia do we need to fully use the power of the wind and not, for example, I don’t know, coal.

Danijela Isailović: Yes. Let’s say we need some green energy mix. I work for wind farms but we shouldn’t forget that the solar industry is also a potential. It is sad that the largest solar park in Serbia has only 2 megawatts and as far as I heard from colleagues who deal with solar energy, we have greater solar potential and more hours of sunshine than Germany which has a lot solar parks so there is a lot in knowledge and technology and not just what nature has given you. Not even our wind is the most favorable, the highest quality regarding some parameters-

Sanja Milosavljević: Really? I can’t stand it when the southeastern wind blows. That’s it- I can’t get out of the house.

Danijela Isailović: You can’t leave the house when in Banat and- yes. It happened to me that one wing of the car flew away when we were – that is, the door.

Sanja Milosavljević: But wait, what does the quality of winds mean? It’s not like – I never thought that the wind can have some quality.

Danijela Isailović: Well, it’s speed, it’s his predictability, it’s not so good or is too strong, too much wind, because at some excessive speed the turbines stop automatically. So that-

Sanja Milosavljević: Yeah, like some security switch-

Danijela Isailović: Well, yes, yes, yes, so this is about it – you need to have a measure in everything, even in blowing.

Sanja Milosavljević: Okay, I agree. Did the, for example, our Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia protest? Were there some – although in our country it is a rule if, for example, a big chain wants to enter into, I don’t think it’s the best comparison, but that’s the last thing on my mind, if a big chain of sports goods wants to enter our market, they block them and they cannot easily enter our market. What is the situation, can you tell us something? Was there a little bit of trouble?

Danijela Isailović: So, as far as Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia itself is concerned, when a law or regulation or a contract on the purchase of electricity is passed, Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia must buy green energy from electric parks. All these directives wait for the opinion and comments of the ministries and competent state institutions. And until there is a positive opinion of all parts, there is no, it is not adopted by the government. So, they knew very well what was coming, what awaited them, what the budget burden was, why it had to happen, what share of coal and dirty technologies, what trends were coming, what the demands of the international community would come to them, so simply when dealing with Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia -when they put their signature on something, they respect it. We had no problems. Whether the people there were personally happy or unhappy, our cooperation with Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia is beautiful. We are now working on new bylaws, a second round of investment is coming. Currently, 4 gigawatts of wind farms are being developed in Serbia. And that is 10 times more than we have now. Of course, not all projects – there are projects and projects. Some only have a PowerPoint presentation and some also have a building permit. But it’s okay for us if we build half of that. Or in the next 10 years, 1 gigawatt, we are great. So, with Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia and the Ministry, we are now working on new regulations, participating in the second round will be auctions, so that we do not stifle our listeners with professional terminology, but in the future, there will be less burden for the state and more for investors. And a higher risk, so here it is. Who is ready…

Sanja Milosavljević: He shall…

Danijela Isailović: Win, yes.

Sanja Milosavljević: Is it only in Vojvodina? Is only Vojvodina favourable for wind farms?

Danijela Isailović: Well, no. There is a part of Serbia, near Negotin and Kladovo…

Sanja Milosavljević: I mean, it crossed my mind…

Danijela Isailović: Well, yes, yes, and that part near Zajecar, Homolje, for example, there are exceptional winds and good locations. But that southern Banat was something – and it is still more desirable. First of all, good infrastructure, easy delivery of turbines, Pancevo port, Smederevo port, Belgrade port. While you need to get to Homolje, to Žagubica, as a tourist, and not with a wind turbine that has a length of I don’t know 100 meters, I don’t know how many tons, special transport, these are really challenges that increase costs, insurance companies they also predict certain risks, so – so to say that everyone is still hoping for some locations in South Banat, there are still the largest number of investors, but something is happening in the territory of Bor, Majdanpek, Zagubica, and a good thing, say in Kostolac, Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia has started construction of a wind farm. Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia that we mentioned, Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia started building a wind farm.

Sanja Milosavljević: That is commendable.

Danijela Isailović: Yes, fantastic. Six megawatts, wind farm, that’s great news and I hope we will promote it a little more as everyone has turned to that construction.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, I didn’t even know that. So, will it be just their investment or is the state participating as well?

Danijela Isailović: Therefore, Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia is an investor, and the financier is the German Development Bank, as such a model exists in the entire region. As they did, it seems to me in Bosnia and Montenegro, and it is normal for an electric power company in a country to have its own wind farm, and a building permit for a solar power plant of almost 10 megawatts also in Kostolac, so I hope Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia goes that way. And Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia is doing some good and green things and should be encouraged. Because somehow when everyone starts criticizing Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia, the biggest polluter, I say yes, but they are also the biggest producer of green energy. Of what we have, more than 80% is produced by Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia – old hydropower plants such as Djerdap, Bajina Basta, Lim-Drim-Lim hydroelectric power plants, all of which are renewable energy sources. And the fact that we have that 20% percent is all Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia. That is a fact and it cannot be kept quiet. So, I would encourage more than I would criticize.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, then Public Enterprise Elektroprivreda Serbia has some bad PR when people don’t know about that. Usually everyone complains that electricity is very expensive and that

Danijela Isailović: Electricity is the cheapest in the region and probably in Europe as well. In our country, electricity is a socio-economic category.

Sanja Milosavljević: Category, yes.

Danijela Isailović: And so there is one other fear, fear from CO2 emission that we will have to pay for the CO2 emission, of those harmful gas emissions, so I think it is smarter for everyone to turn to green energy as soon as possible. And that money, if it has to be spent, should be spent on green energy and investments, rather than paying some penalties for harmful CO2 emissions. To have polluted air and dirty technologies and still have to pay. This way at least if we have to pay to pay for something-

Sanja Milosavljević: If only we knew why it is paid, yes. And otherwise, the air quality in Serbia is really criminal, so to speak. I use that AirCare application, even the founder and owner of that company was one of our guests here – for example in Macedonia and here in Serbia we really breathe very poor air quality.

Danijela Isailović: Traffic and thermal power plants, and unfortunately we are the nation with the highest percentage of lung cancer patients and the highest mortality. To me, we point out that fact, and when the story about green energy starts or when the share that citizens pay for renewable energy sources to happen, it means the scandal, and it is a scandal because the air is polluted. At the same time, the fee for renewable energy sources has increased five times. For my apartment, which is not big, it was 8-9 dinars. And now it’s 40. It’s not even a price for a daily newspaper. And that’s it. That’s it. And that is on a monthly basis. It is less than a box of cigarettes and if we all give money for green energy as much as we gave for masks in the last year, we would be Denmark and Sweden. And I know that this podcast is partly related to the topic of Covid and so I can’t shake off of the impression even though I don’t know how Covid came here, maybe a decade will pass and it will never be revealed, but I can’t get rid of the impression even if I have to advocate for a conspiracy theory, in my opinion it is a consequence of climate change and in some way it has to do with global warming and pollution. Somehow those things coincided too much for my opinion.

Sanja Milosavljević: If they coincide, yes, maybe that is-

Danijela Isailović: Maybe just a polluted and warmed planet was just a good base for such a virus.

Sanja Milosavljević: So that climate change is happening – you know what’s fascinating to me? I am fascinated by two groups of people – people who believe that there is climate change and base their belief on facts and evidence, and then there is a group of people who completely ignore the fact that climate change is really happening and that, for example-

Danijela Isailović: So to say, there is no spring anymore. Are those climate changes? No, like, that is not related.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, then some conspiracy theory happens. Yes it is completely fascinating to me how it is possible, here I am 41 years old so I think, even for such a short time-

Danijela Isailović: You didn’t stop at the age of 33?

Sanja Milosavljević: I didn’t stop at 33, yes. Even in such a short period of time, in 40 years, it is nothing from a historical perspective. That’s one millisecond. But even I can notice some of those minimal changes. If nothing else, the spring comes later or the winters are not cold, there is no snow, no ice and so some things that I remember from when I was little. I mean, I can’t-

Danijela Isailović: Those are some basic stuff. Even, I like-

Sanja Milosavljević: Even if I don’t read some facts and studies, I believe my own eyes. I believe in my experience.

Danijela Isailović: Yes. Unfortunately, sometimes people will not accept the truth or that something is happening and it is easier for them to be against everything and to be against pollution, but also to be against green energy and the demagoguery of group gatherings – it is always the state’s fault, corporations – Here. It’s easiest to post on Twitter.

Sanja Milosavljević: Ah yes, I know, it’s easiest to be present on Twitter. And the hardest part is taking the bag with you to the store. I mean, that’s the minimum you can do.

Danijela Isailović: You mean a reusable bag?

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes. Yes, I agree, yes. Or a bag or a reusable bag, whatever. So what did your last year look like?

Danijela Isailović: Well, private side…

Sanja Milosavljević: I mean, given that you’re in a business that really requires constant contact with stakeholders, some promotion, talking, and even associations that happened in the end, what did that look like for you?

Danijela Isailović: So let me say it is a business that is very expensive and does not happen overnight. So, it is planned. So we adapted to the new circumstances. Luckily, the projects were mostly completed in Serbia and people were preparing for new permits. Of course, the meetings in state institutions stopped, the state institutions had to adjust to online meetings. We learned that many don’t have computers that support the Zoom or simply have PCs some of I don’t know how many years old, with some outdated programs. So, over time, it worked, we somehow adapted to the circumstances, and I can say that one thing happened in our industry that may have induced the creation of the associations we wanted to make. And we have seen that from colleagues from Croatia, it is no secret that even we are called Renewable Energy Sources of Serbia and they are Renewable Energy Sources of Croatia and I hope that we will soon sign a memorandum of cooperation. So, a situation occurred and the state suspended payments, ie EPS, payments to green energy producers due to the state of emergency. They invoked force majeure and payments were suspended. And then the companies were left without monthly invoices, that is, without monthly income, without any notice, and that money is used for the repayment of loans for world financial institutions, so to speak, they are not interested if you have your credit obligation. And then it happened to us that people started communicating with each other – now everyone is in the same problem. We are no longer a competition, and that is it even then – Let someone report it to the Minister or let someone report it, pass it on to others, it’s a hassle, people need to have understanding. And as we have understanding, what if the state of emergency is longer than one month? We will all endure one month, but what will we do next? And then we started to communicate intensively all together and over time we realized that we also need a formal body and that one unified single voice, and there is an important message that should send it to the state and should improve that private-public dialogue. So maybe it was a trigger and the producers of green energy gathered together, those who really made the biggest wind farms, those who have it in presentations, and then in the beginning the association got appearance and one seriousness as sell as IBRD support. And IBRD support means a lot. And of course the money we received for the companies, but certainly the fact that, if the IBRD recognizes you and supports your association, that means you are someone.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, it has some credibility. And privately?

Danijela Isailović: Well, privately, last year was quite difficult. I hope the next one will be better.

Sanja Milosavljević: And what is it – I mean, I’m not going to ask you what was the hardest for you, but how did you get out of that hardest? What is that-

Danijela Isailović: Well, I think it’s a process and I got out – I get out on the principle of dear people support, therefore a little more work and work in the Association, activities in nature, nature really has a positive effect on people, then the fact that there was much less activity in traffic, so then we could walk a little more, and then as it was impossible to travel abroad, we all realized how beautiful Serbia is, so we all have photos from Tara and Djerdap and Besenovac lake, that’s for those who didn’t take a picture for Instagram on Besenovac lake, I recommend it, it is closer to Belgrade. So, the discovery of some places in Serbia, some ethno villages, some interesting things, we realized how this is a beautiful country. The coronavirus was supposed to happen to satisfy our needs.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, you see, for example, two weeks ago, a girl who lives here in Serbia in Vrmdža, a village near Sokobanja from Venezuela, was a guest and she said that Serbia is heaven on earth. I mean, it’s just different eyes, I live here and it’s all normal for me. Like everything, I take it for granted, and she, fearless or whatever, she looks at Serbia with objective eyes as how beautiful it is here and what a paradise it is here. Which is nice to remind us all. It doesn’t just have to remind us of the coronavirus. I want to ask you two things at the end. One is what it’s like to be a manager in such a big association, how does that happen? What are the skills, and when I think of you, it is based on previous work experience, but, in a way, to be a manager, you have to have good leadership skills, not only to know the rules and have a network of people with whom you can communicate, but you have to be a the leader is not just all of a sudden, here I came. Especially since you’re a woman and especially since I’m sure you’re almost just talking to men. I do not believe that in that one room that all members of the association are women. I don’t know if there are any at all. I want you to tell us that, and I want you to send us a message at the end. Something. Some of your impressions, details, a book you read, something to share with us.

Danijela Isailović: Yes, so I didn’t just come but my colleagues chose me and they are really the three members of the Board of directors who are the directors of their companies, they have built three wind farms. Their companies also invested a little more than 600 million euros, and I worked on two of those three wind farms. Maybe they, if you look at their merits, are for green energy in Serbia from the aspect of function first of all, maybe they had that right to be chosen, not me, but they absolutely said that I should be the manager and not even to try to I have arguments against that, you know, I’m a Political scientist by education, I’m not an economist, an engineer, a lawyer, so I’m not trying to dodge and I think that these social skills are very important and that they need someone who will be an integrative factor, to be able to talk to everyone, to the state and investors and citizens and to give presentations in schools and to get into the whole issue so that I think that they have not repented from the current successes and results. They even told me to slow down a bit. And as for women, we’ve only had one live event since we were founded, to have all the members there, and then when we looked at each other I saw that, among the members, and the presidents are usually the directors of those companies, we have one woman who is the director and it is the company EkoStep and the owner is also a woman, Mrs. Jadranka is the owner of the hotel Ramonda on mountain Rtanj. And my decision is that with the three bodies that exist in the association RES Serbia, they are lawyers, engineering forum, RES young leaders, meaning those who will deal with green energy, who are less than 30 years old and who will replace me and my colleagues soon. And we also have a Green women’s network. And the Green women’s network is something – I think my colleagues thought well, come on. Let her go. However, that costs us nothing. Her idea, she will work on it. It will be her disgrace, it doesn’t concern us at all. However, then EBRD was delighted with the idea, then we heard praise and offers for conferences from different sides that we just have a Green women’s panel or something like that, so it’s great, it’s going to be one great thing, and that is to bring together women, ladies, who work in companies that are our members and that are really committed to those ideas. And it doesn’t matter if she is a secretary, a cleaner, an owner, a director, it doesn’t matter at all, but we also want to attract some other women or, say, students who want to do it, they don’t have to be our members but somehow make some critical green female mass. And to eventually do education in Serbia. It often happened to me that girls from schools in Alibunar or Vladimirovac approached me at the wind farm and asked which school they should study, what should they study in order to work at the wind farm like I do. And then I explain to them that they don’t have to be an engineer and they don’t have to be a lawyer, but that it is okay. But that they can do other educational profiles. It is important to tell girls and young students how the world already works, that it is not just a male world, and that there is a lot of work for women and that they can be leaders, and managers, and project managers so I think we need to animate them and encourage that inclusiveness. I’m not really a feminist, but this is something so beautiful to me because I see a slight ignorance, lack of information and great potential.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, you know what, that’s why I called you because you’re a woman in a specific position in an industry that is predominantly male. And thank you for sharing that Female green network initiative with us because, I know it’s in preparation phase, it’s-

Danijela Isailović: Yes, literally just the decision to form the network exists, and some rumors about, so in a way, they call me a green attaché.

Sanja Milosavljević: I like it, green attaché.

Danijela Isailović: Like a super group or a female organized crime group. But we will see, I think it will be something good and beautiful and there are such similar organizations in Europe and in the world, so we will see where we can connect, pick up some experience, networking, maybe send someone for education, someone to come to us, so it will be okay. In Croatia, too, the Like a super or a female organized crime group. Or OKG it. But we will see, I think it will be something good and beautiful and there are such similar organizations in Europe and the world, so we will see where we can connect, pick up some experience, Some networking, maybe send someone for education, for someone to come to us, so it will be okay. In Croatia, too, she runs an association is run by women so…

Sanja Milosavljević: Great, I’m so glad I didn’t know about it–

Danijela Isailović: She is also not an expert, so…

Sanja Milosavljević: You know what, if someone understands the logic of how something works, they don’t have to have a degree from an electrical engineering college like you don`t have.

Danijela Isailović: Yes, I really appreciate their knowledge and education and the experience or licenses they have and we can’t do without them. But neither can them without us, so…

Sanja Milosavljević: Of course. And please just send us a message. Or recommend a book for us to read. Or some regulation, law, something that awaits us.

Danijela Isailović: So, I recommend you to read the booklets that are published in Nedeljnik. This week – today, ie Thursday, the weekly and gift booklet is about Mihajlo Pupin arrived and this week the Pupin wind farm in Serbia got a building permit for 95 megawatts wind farm and it is one of the next wind farms that will be built and it is also by our member. In the previous issue, it was Tesla, before that Andrić, so those books with Nedeljnik are a nice read, it’s not easy, it’s not very difficult, it can fit in any bag or pocket for travel, that’s my ideal recommendation.

Sanja Milosavljvić: Oh, thank you very much. Thank you Daniela really, and thank you from the bottom of my heart for agreeing to come I know how busy you these days and how much you have working groups and meetings and high level meetings and meetings with members of the Association, so really, thank you for taking the time to come.

Danijela Isailović: Well, let’s add that some slogan of our association “Renewable Energy Synergy” so we have to create a synergy of good energy on all fronts and for me respect the media – not only I come from that sector – is very important and I really respond to calls and local media and international ones and it is very important to send that voice about the importance of green energy and sustainable development and every opportunity should be used. And it was a special pleasure for me to come here because you also came from another world and you are a versatile woman and you tried different businesses and showed that your nest has different angles and perspectives, even though it is a nest, so here it is…

Sanja Milosavljević: Thank you. Thank you very much. Really, thank you for the compliment. Dear people, you watched and listened to Danijela Isailović from Belgrade. And Mondopreneur podcast. Follow us on social networks such as Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter. Subscribe to our YouTube channel, just type Mondopreneur. Be good and in good health and see you in a week.