Sanja Milosavljevic: Good people of the world, you are listening and watching to Mondopreneur podcast. The main goal of this podcast is to share stories of successful persons all over the world and to see how they’re coping with this situation that all hit us and maybe learn something new, get some new ideas, inspire to do something important in your life. This whole podcast is supported by the US embassy in Belgrade and in Serbia and my today’s guest is going to be Kosta. Kosta Petrov. He comes from Skoplje, from Macedonia and he wears different hats because he- while I try to learn as much as I can about him on LinkedIn and some other social medias, I realized that he done some important stuff regarding communications and regarding promotion of his country in the world, so he is going to tell us something more about that, but just a sneak peek into the topics that we’re going to discuss. So I’m going to enjoy and I hope that you’re going to enjoy too. So, hi Kosta, how are you?

Kosta Petrov: Hi, Sanja, thank you so much for inviting me. I- before this podcast we all discussed how our day started so hopefully we’ll have an interview without any interruption.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, we can always cut in and continue, so don’t worry, don’t worry. I think the gods of electricity are going to be in our favor. So, everything will go off. So, yeah. Can you tell us something more about yourself? I usually like to ask my guests what is their educational background and how is it connected to the things that they are doing right now. Is it actually something completely different, or is it something that correlates to their education? 

Kosta Petrov: Okay, so hi everyone my name is Kosta. I was born in 1983. I was studying until my third year of high school in Skoplje, Macedonia and then I went to Seattle, Washington where I graduated from high school. Then afterwards I moved to Prague where I studied Politics and Society in Anglo-American University. I stayed in Prague one more year after my education, and afterwards I moved to Dubai for 5 more years. So, in 2011 I decided to move back to Macedonia where I started my own business PWorld, concentrating on PR communications and events. And this November I’m the managing director of the fund for Innovation and technology, which is a government agency in North Macedonia. It’s a good question whether what I taught in school is of my usage in today’s career. Not 100%, I studied Politics and Society and especially when you’re a young person you think in politics I’m going to change the world now. I’m going to create this, create then and then you enter reality and you realize that you can change the world but it’s much harder than you think. However the critical thinking, the research, the communication skills are somethings that I was taught in school and now that I’m heading government agencies it’s also helping to have political knowledge. But all in all my whole view is the whole life is a school. So you should always be open to learn because I don’t know if you heard this proverb, but it goes “The moment you stop learning is the moment you die.” So, yeah. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, yeah. I agree. I am that kind of person. I always like to learn. I prefer spending time reading than watching some content on social media. I really prefer reading one page a day if I have time than to just spend it in vain. So, how important is to actually leave your country and go somewhere else to study. Not just to travel, but to study and work because that’s basically when we get to know other cultures. When we go just for travel sake we spend, I don’t know, 10-15 days and then we return home. But when you spend some time somewhere else, it can basically help you to learn someone else’s culture. So is that important and how important was that for you?

Kosta Petrov: I mean, you know, you will probably agree with what I’m going to say. I come from a generation which- that was grown and is still being grown on this notion that if you want to make it, then you have to go outside of your country. So I was dreaming of moving into the States since I was in third grade. I was telling my friends, I want to go to the States, I want to go to the States, I want to live in the United States. And then finally when I finished second year in high school the opportunity happened and I moved to the states and really for me it was a life-changing experience. Not just because I had the opportunity to have my dream come true and go live in the United States, but also for the first time I got familiar with a culture with a notion that there are no limits. Where you can really if you work hard, if you concentrate you can really build a career for yourself, you can build a life that’s based on your dreams. And I know it sounds very Hollywood and it’s not like a cliche, but there’s really- even today when I go to United States, especially if you go to New York, you have this feeling anything is possible. I can do it. I was really happy to stay in a family that when I was staying there they were very well financially positioned with very high positions in big corporations, but what I learned living with them was that this was something they earned. They both started- you know, my host-parents, they both started with small jobs in New Jersey and they progressed through the years. They were able to live in this amazing house in Seattle. So it’s for the first time that I started thinking that it doesn’t matter where you’re from, it’s hard work, it’s having the vision of where you want to see yourself. Because unfortunately still up until today, we don’t live in our region and the culture in a way that is supportive, encouraging dreaming, that teaches you that it’s okay to fail. I mean, I don’t know but in my family failure was also always something like “oh my god”, you know? You shouldn’t fail. I’m so grateful about having that experience and I think that most of the people who go to the States, that’s the first thing they learn, you know? You can really with hard work, with the right vision, with the right mindset make anything happen. So I’m really grateful for having that opportunity to go to the States, to spend time there, to graduate there from high school. Then I moved to Prague which has a completely different culture. Czech Republic has a completely different culture from the US, the US is more open, accepting, while the Czech Republic – when I was there in 2000 – it was still very close-cultured, the Czech on one side, the foreigners on the other side. For the first couple of years we lived in a Balkan ghetto. We didn’t have so much experience. No, no, it’s true. Because I have so much experience interacting with people from the Czech Republic. And obviously as a result there were these prejudices that were created. But in time I also got familiar with the Czech culture, Czech people, the Czech language and even today with my sister who studied together and grew up sometimes we talk in Czech just for fun. Yeah. And then I went to Dubai afterwards which was a completely different culture. Which was – when I went there in 2006 – it was America on steroids. It was like money, money, money everywhere and I was 21 when I went there. And I had this amazing job salary which I don’t even make today with my whole business. But then in 2008 the financial crisis happened and you realized oh it was all fake. The life that I led had nothing to do with reality. So I had a year of depression and anxiety and thinking about what I wanted to do in life and actually that’s why I decided to go back, because I couldn’t stand Dubai anymore. Especially because I had a small baby and the financial crisis just destroyed everything that I thought Dubai was. And when I started my company, again it was very much based on travelling. Because before Covid-19 we did events in 40 countries. So for me it was the most amazing experience to go to countries like Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Qatar, Bahrain, you know all around the world and just experience other countries. We also did an event in Iran. Morocco. So it was really, you know, if you ask me what is the one thing you miss the most from this Covid-19 situation, it was the travelling. Because I got used to travelling so much that now staying at home and being at home is a completely unfamiliar territory. But-

Sanja Milosavljevic: Sorry to interrupt you, because for me also this last year we haven’t basically left our flats. Our homes. My husband and I didn’t even go travelling in Serbia. We were just in Belgrade-

Kosta Petrov: I came in Serbia. Three weeks ago I came to Belgrade.

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, I know, I saw some photos. But you said something previously, that experience of growing up in former Yugoslavia, and then after these wars and after the things that happened, it’s kind of- for me it was easier to cope with this. It’s like okay, this is not going to last forever. I already have in my experience that thing that I cannot travel, that I cannot move, that I cannot have a passport, that I cannot get Visa. So, it was for me something similar to that situation and that experience, so I think that was easier for me than for some my other friends who live somewhere else where it’s normal to travel. They didn’t have that kind of experience while growing up, so I know it’s probably very hard for you, but did you find any kind of- I don’t know, something that would ease that fear of- or anxiety of not being able to move. How was it with you? 

Kosta Petrov: I mean it’s not like I was anxious because I couldn’t travel or get on a plane. You know, with time you learn to adapt to a new situation. Although the first month was a bit weird, but obviously when under pressure you adapt to the current situation. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: They- sorry, they say that stands for intelligent people. That they just adapt easily to new situations.

Kosta Petrov: Well as Darwin said – survival of the fittest. And you know, for me it’s really interesting when people today talk “Oh, I can’t wait to go back to normal” and I’m thinking like you will not go back to normal. Things will never be the way they were two years ago or a year and a half ago. The world is changing and that’s normal. Sometimes it changes course. Covid-19 is a forced change, but if you don’t learn how to adapt to this situation now, I don’t think that you will be able to adapt to the new normal. And it’s an unfortunate situation because there are businesses that cannot adapt, because everything has completely changed. But that doesn’t mean that you should stick in your comfort zone and one thing that I learned from running my own business and experiencing the global turmoil, the financial crisis, terrorist attacks – boundaries, boundaries, boundaries – is you have to keep going. And Covid-19 is hard, it’s affecting people around us, it’s affecting us. Considering that I’m healthy, I haven’t had Covid-19, my family is safe, so I’m grateful for that. But it’s affecting us in a different way and we need to learn to adapt. Because there’s no such thing as going back to normal. This is the- I hate that word “new normal”, but this is the new normal.  

Sanja Milosavljevic: I agree, I also- I’m not happy with the term new normal- 

Kosta Petrov: It’s normal. That’s probably the- yeah, yeah.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yeah. If wearing masks and disinfecting hands means new normal, it’s just normal. So, I would like to just talk to you about some of your previous businesses or some of your previous experiences. Something that is super great for me is the fact that you run that Institute for Technology. Fund for-? Can you please repeat the full name?

Kosta Petrov: Yeah, Fund for Innovation and Technology.

Sanja Milosavljevic: And Technology, yeah. When I think about this kind of stuff I always think that you can have enthusiastic people that start something. But if they don’t have a structure and support from the government and the above, they can- it just get- it takes longer. You know? It just takes longer to change something and it takes really longer to implement some new stuff. So how did you end up doing- being in this position and what are your plans? What do you like to do? I think it’s great that you try to promote North Macedonia as a new place for digital nomads to just come to. So, how did it happen and what are some of your responsibilities?

Kosta Petrov: Me being appointed as the director of the Fund is- I mean, in my head is a logical step in my career. I mean I am a father of a startup that I’m grateful is quite successful that can run itself at this point and let’s face it – in our region if you want to change something, you have to enter the politics world. And thank god that I’m happy financially, spiritually, emotionally and at this point in my life I feel that with my experience, knowledge, connections I can contribute to a positive change. Of course if you come from the private sector, it’s- the whole government sector is unfamiliar and uncharted territory. Because things move slower, there is this decision-making process, then you have laws, then you have your legal department saying no, this is how it needs to be done.  Then you have working groups, committees, commissions. Sometimes it can be quite nerve-wracking, but what I’m really happy about is that with positions like this if you want, if you have a vision, you can really create a change. So, I’m really happy that first of all I have an amazing team. It’s all about teamwork, you cannot do things by yourself. And the Fund is five months long, but in the last six month we’ve completely changed what the fund should be about. I think it’s similar in Serbia, also in Macedonia, when economic programs are made, and when economic strategies are made, they are divided into micro, medium and- micro, small and medium companies. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Medium, yes.

Kosta Petrov: Yes. And there was never a strategy about startup companies, which I think are their own category. So the first thing I did when I came into this position together with the government we created the National Startup Council. Which is headed by the vice-president of the Economic Affairs of the government. And the National Startup Council is giving advice and also input into laws that are important in the startup community. So we are involved in the law for innovation, the law for social entrepreneurship, labour law, together with the Ministry of Interior we are also working on the law for digital nomads and it’s really, really- for me when we have this National Council and you have these innovative people from the startup community together with government representatives, there’s synergy. And when you see that which started just as an idea in a conversation you see it’s being transferred into law, it’s really amazing. You know, you have those nerve-wracking moments and frustrations. When things like these happen, you realize it’s worth it. That’s the power of working for a government that also has a division, but it’s completely different. Especially when you have your own business to think about, you figure it out together, you see it, the government takes much longer, so you have to have really good, strong nerves and also be very persistent. Because what’s happening in the government is you start on something and then something else appears, and most of the time the focus goes on the new prizes. You have to tell them no, okay, okay, let’s go back to this and let’s continue doing this. And it’s a joined effort. Listen, why is it important for us to focus on startups- sorry, my earplug fell. If you’re a startup the access to financing in Macedonia, it’s probably the same in Serbia it’s horrible, the banks are feudal. Angel investors practically non-existent.

Sanja Milosavljevic: We don’t- we actually have something like angel investors, but it’s not regulated by the law, so it’s not just a- 

Kosta Petrov: It’s also the amounts, the amounts invested. One guy came to me “Oh, I’m an angel investor, I just invested 5 thousand in a startup.” And I’m like the state is investing six thousand in steps. You’re not an angel investor, you know? But we need to change that. So that’s why it’s important, my whole point was – the government cannot change things by itself, the startup community cannot change things by itself, we have to work together. And I think that when you are working together you can truly achieve some kind of impact. Other than that, you know, just talk. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, yeah. It’s just empty, empty talking with no results after that. So, how does the startup ecosystem look like in Macedonia. Is it from the tech world, is it from the financial world, is it something related to food or- how does it look like and what are the- I mean the problems are pretty much the same I think in Serbia and Macedonia because we are a region and we basically have similar problems, but where is the focus in startup ecosystem in Macedonia? 

Kosta Petrov: Well, I think considering that-

Sanja Milosavljevic: And- sorry, are they all in Skoplje or can you find them all over Macedonia?

Kosta Petrov: Well, first of all considering that the state would never have strategy about startups, I would think the startup ecosystem is very well developed. Obviously the tech companies are paving the way, but we see companies from different sectors and different regions which is very important. For example when we have a call for startups, we’re investing in startups, if you are in a less developed region, you always have higher grade than those startups in Skoplje. Because what is really important is that we don’t concentrate everything in the capital, we have to- it has to be regional development. Other than that- the effects are still okay, but it’s very important that people with this idea are supported through the country. We have a very good association called Startup Macedonia which in a way maps and gives a structure of the startup ecosystem and we are working  very closely with them together. The main problem as in the emerging is access to finance. So, for many startups the funds for innovation is the only organization that provides finances. Banks are very conservative. So we are talking with a lot of banks right now and trying to tie them in with our activities. But from my own personal experience, if you have a good idea, if you believe in the idea, you will find finances. Whether it’s from your parents, or an angel investor or a loan from the bank – you will find the money. What we are lacking is, and what we need to focus more on is mentorship. Because we have amazing ideas from our startups, but the market and sales part is not to the level that it should be. So, also the fund- we created a completely new mentoring program that is focusing on mentorship and marketing and sales. But education is key. And especially in a fast-changing world like this. Sometimes I’m worried that we still have the mentality of oh, I’m not telling you my idea because you might steal it. No, we have to create an open system where everyone is being supportive but also the system where the big corporations also start investing in startups. Because in Macedonia we don’t have a lot of big corporations, you know the really big brands that are actually investing in startup development and we need to change this. Startups need support from everyone – the national institutions, corporations, the State, because I really think that if someone can change the perception of business, the perception of our country towards startups, is the small guy somewhere now in a garage thinking of a product and thinking that this will never happen to make it. Those are the people that we need to support. Because you know we need to move from this tycoon type of businesses – god knows how they got the money and usually they give very bad faith to other entrepreneurs. We need to put the startups and the innovators in the first row, it’s time. 

Sanja Milosavljevic:  No, it’s funny when you said that people- it’s similar here, people don’t like to share their ideas because somebody will steal their idea. And I think that the first lesson is that the key is execution of the idea, not the idea itself.

Kosta Petrov: Exactly. I think people forget about that. You know? Probably there were many Ubers before Uber happened, but Uber was the one who made it. Same with Air BnB. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, of course. And everything else. Like, look at computers, cars, the food we eat. It’s just basically there – people probably had similar ideas, but the execution is key. It’s- and organizing the job and- 

Kosta Petrov: And the right team.

Sanja Milosavljevic: And the right team, yes, that’s what I wanted to say. Having the right team to execute your idea. Okay, so that’s nice. I always like to point out that we are a region and we have similar problems, but we can basically learn from each other and we should connect more between former republics of Yugoslavia, because we have a similar mentality, we can understand each other speaking in Bosnian, Serbian, Macedonian, Croatian, we speak basically similar languages so it’s easier to cooperate between two or three different-

Kosta Petrov: And we are all small markets. We are small markets, compared to the global picture, I think we are small. If we want to create a global impact, we have to work as a region and find a way to work as a region.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So how come this idea of promoting Macedonia as a new place for digital nomads. I know that during last year there was- I think that was in Macedonia, it was to legalize marijuana so everyone is going to go to Macedonia now. Was it true, or was it just like on the level of it’s funny and-

Kosta Petrov: No, it’s true. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: It’s true? Okay. 

Kosta Petrov: Yeah, I mean the prime minister at a press conference said we are working on law changes to legalize cannabis and marijuana. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: So what happened with that? Have you legalized it, or…?

Kosta Petrov: I mean, it takes time obviously because you have to find the right law. There are a lot of laws available right now, you have the Canadian law, you have what’s happening in Portugal and in the Netherlands, so we have a focus group that is working on different scenarios right now. And it’s something that I think will happen, maybe even this year it will happen.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, sorry but that is fast. Because it’s just one year and if you close the whole deal and get the law in one year, I think it’s okay, it’s fast.

Kosta Petrov: Well, let’s hope. As I said that kind of administration sometimes can be very slow. Also we have our parliament has some issues with the result because there’s not a good cooperation between the ruling party and the opposition. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I mean, who would say?

Kosta Petrov: But the good thing is that the idea is there. I believe that there’s a public consensus on the importance of this and also the economic benefit it would bring to the country and I fully support it and I think it’s gonna be an added value to those digital nomads that decide to come and work from Macedonia. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I really like that idea, I think it’s great. I mean, if you have a good, solid infrastructure like good roads, hospitality, capacities and you have fast internet – why not? You have that location like the sea is very close, the mountain is very close, you have variety – the nature is- 

Kosta Petrov: And you’re- anywhere in Europe you’re three hours max. You can get anywhere in Europe in two hours max.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So whose idea was that?

Kosta Petrov: It was mine. I mean, we are following- I was following closely what was happening in Georgia, the Barbados launched something similar, Croatia started talking about it, so we worked closely, I told you we started in Macedonia and we started talking about digital nomads and one of the employees is a very good friend of mine and started in Macedonia she was like well you know in Ohrid there are already digital nomads. So she went to Ohrid and spoke with them and we really have a community of digital nomads in Ohrid that work from there during Covid-19, that enjoy the food, enjoy the history, enjoy the location, the fact that we’re one of the cheapest countries in Europe. But the biggest issue that they have is that they can stay only 90 days. After 90 days they have to leave the country. So that’s where actually we got the final push to make this happen. We talked with the Ministry of Interior because there needs to be a change in the law for foreigners. So the Ministry of Interior is working on those law changes, so hopefully in the next six months we’ll have the law and then we’ll create a program. Because what you want to do is actually have an incoming center for digital nomads. You know, when someone comes that they know where to rent a house, where to get a sim card, stuff like that. And also the key to the digital nomad programs is to engage the digital nomads with our startup community. Because other than the economic benefit, I think that’s the biggest benefit of the digital nomads serving as mentors to our entrepreneurs and our startups. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Great, it’s really great. Because I would like that something similar is happening in Serbia, but it’s not. 

Kosta Petrov: But you have startup visa, right? You have startup visa? 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I think yes. I think yes, da. So can you tell us something- and I actually met you when you were wearing that hat. I was on a masterclass in Skoplje listening to your lecture and it was about- basically about communication. So, what does it mean to you? I mean- and how event industry collapsed and changed during last year. But first can you tell us something about the Pworld and can you tell us something about that passion of yours to communicate?

Kosta Petrov: Well Pworld is the company we founded in November 2010 and our main thing was organizing business events around the world. In the first 5 years our focus was emerging market. So we were bringing global expertise to emerging markets in countries like I mentioned, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Kazakhstan, Turkey, North Africa, we did events in Egypt, in Morocco, in Ghana and then we started expanding to the US and Canada and now our biggest markets are the US and Canada. So what happened? We initially started as events agency and then slowly people would approach me and ask me oh, who’s doing your PR, your PR is really good. You’re doing really good content, you have really good media exposure. And I told them we do our own PR. Oh, can you do this for us? Can you do this for us? Can you do that for us? And I was like okay. So with time we also started offering PR services. Our expertise was government PR and government communications and that’s how in a way we also expanded our portfolio. As for Covid-19, I mean it was the biggest test for our industry. When the lockdown started last March, we had 23 events planned in 16 countries. So we had to cancel everything and we re-scheduled for September thinking this will be done by September. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Silly of us.

Kosta Petrov: And then, while we were in the first lockdown that we had, for the first month you’re not doing anything, let’s wait for a month and see what happens. You know, summer will come- September will come, we’ll continue our campaigns, we’ll have more delegates, something like that. But then as time went we realized, you know, this is not something that will finish by September. So we started doing digital events. And to tell you the truth in the beginning I was a little bit discouraged because when we were doing email marketing, people were saying “It’s Covid-19 and you’re trying to sell me an event?” And I was very discouraged. In my head I was thinking how do you expect me to run this business without selling tickets to online events. But that was only the first month. And there were comments like as a company you are tone-deaf, doing online stuff like that. Which is normal, people psychologically are going to different things when the first ones don’t happen. And then we do the quick digital switch and we had record-breaking in 2020. And now my fear is- my management fear is how are we going to go back to normal events? 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, this is normal. This is new normal.

Kosta Petrov: Well I mean like live events. Because we are doing everything now online through Zoom and you’re okay, but- [interferrence]

Sanja Milosavljevic: Sorry, I can’t hear you anything right now.  

Kosta Petrov: I didn’t say anything.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Ah, okay. Because it semed like you- yeah, okay. So, I don’t know I actually went on some of those hybrid forms of these online events and they are not as bad as I thought it would be. Really.

Kosta Petrov: I mean, it’s different. It’s different. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: It is different. I miss that personal contact if I have a question that I can meet somebody after the lecture and talk to them. 

Kosta Petrov: [interference]…the magic happens, you know, the networking. You can do it online through Zoom, but it’s not the same. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, I know.  Well, we are going to get used to it and I think that some of the events could actually stay online. Some events, I think that they should stay online and I think that some other events should actually be live but at the moment that’s not possible. 

Kosta Petrov: I think in next years we’ll go through a stage of hybrid events. There will be parts that some people will be there, some people will be through Zoom, but nothing can replace events. Honestly, I love technology and I told you we benefited from [interference] …nothing can replace events.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So this is our last question and I would like to ask you what do you think about failure. For me, failure is the express way of learning about yourself, about your business, way to learn some new skills or something like that. So what is failure for you? 

Kosta Petrov: Well I think failure is probably the most amazing thing that can happen to you. Because it’s- it will redefine you, it will teach you new things and it will take you to the next level. In your life. But the problem is that when we experience a stressful situation, when we experience failure, we are limiting ourselves in that particular moment. You know, the end of the world, I’m a failure, I’m not good at anything. And I’ve been in those situations, you know? I’ve had a long battle with anxiety, with depression, I had moments when I had suicidal thoughts because I thought I’m a failure and that I cannot do anything right. But then there comes a point in life when you have to ascertain whether this is really my failure or is my perception of failure. Because most of the time we are not afraid of our own failure, but we are afraid how people will perceive us when we fail. What are our parents going to say when we fail, what are our friends going to say about us if we fail? What is the society going to think about us when we fail. And then you come to a certain point of life, and this is especially true if you’re an entrepreneurs, you’re very emotionally attached to your business. Because when you own your own startups or your own business, the business is your baby.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes…

Kosta Petrov: There comes the point where you’re like the success or the failure of my company of my business, of my professional career does not define me as a person. I am much more than this position, I am much more than Pworld, I’m much more than anything that society perceives me. And when you come to that moment, you don’t care anymore. You know? You don’t care anymore, because you create your own path- obviously you’re full of experience. Because when you get to that point, you’ll probably already have been through some nasty things, but it’s- I think it’s the most amazing skill when you just don’t care anymore. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, I agree. You said everything, I’m not going to add anything to this and you said one very important stuff, that you had some different thoughts like suicidal thoughts and you had those anxiety states and whatever, so I hope it’s different in Macedonia. In Serbia, we are actually afraid to say that we have a problem. Not just with feelings-

Kosta Petrov: No, same here. It’s same here. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: And it’s so- I see people suffer and one or two good conversations with a professional can help them. Just to overcome those- as you said, nobody cares about that. It’s our perception of the problem, most of the time. And for me it’s- mental health is very imporant. If you actually want to develop all of our potential and live happy life. So, I would like to- I usually don’t do that, but can you show- I really like the tattoo. The tattoo is perfect, the one with the- can you tell us something about it? It’s perfect, I really love it. So, who is that? 

Kosta Petrov: Well, I have around 20 tattoos, but this tattoo is my favorite. It was drawn by my daughter, so she drew me, my wife and our dog and she drew like a butterfly and a heart. But I have plenty of tattoos. So what’s happening is when I go into government for meetings I would wear a suit, people won’t see my tattoos and then they will see me outside during the weekend or after work and they are like “Oh, I didn’t notice, I didn’t know you have so many tattoos”. But I love my tattoos. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I believe you, I think that there is a great story behind every tattoo. It’s not just a sketch or painting, it’s the whole story behind that. Thank you Kosta, thank you so much for your time.

Kosta Petrov: Thank you.

Sanja Milosavljevic: And for your expertise and the fact that you shared some very thoughtful things with us and I really hope that people are actually going to enjoy our conversation.

Kosta Petrov: Thank you, Sanja so much, it’s very important that we have activities like this to share what we’ve learned. How we failed. But it’s most important to keep supporting each other. So keep doing this, keep inspiring us and hopefully we’ll see each other in live soon. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Oh, I really hope so. I’m planning to go to both Macedonia and Greece this summer, so if I have time and I’m in Skoplje, I’m going to call you don’t worry. 

Kosta Petrov: Perfect, thank you!

Sanja Milosavljevic: Thank you. So, good people of the world, you were listening and watching to Mondopreneur podcast and my today’s guest as I said was Kosta Petrov. And if you ever read his CV it says he’s an international entrepreneur, which Mondopreneur actually is. So, you can always follow us on social media like Facebook and Instagram and LinkedIn and you can listen to us on almost every audio platform out there. And subscribe to our YouTube channel. Stay good, stay in good health and see you in a week.

Kosta Petrov: Thank you, bye!