EP023: Rafaela Rica, Expert in Marketing and Communications from Albania
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Sanja Milosavljevic: Good people of the world, my name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I’m going to be your host today. You’re watching the Mondopreneur podcast and this project is supported by the US embassy in Belgrade. The idea behind this whole project is to share stories of other successful women of the world and to see how their lives are transformed during this pandemic period. So I hope you are going to enjoy our conversation. My guest today is Rafaela and she comes from Albania. She is a very successful lady with over 20 years of experience, so enjoy. Hi, Rafaela – how are you?
Rafaela Rica: Hi, Sanja – thank you so much for this kind invitation. It’s been some time since we met, last time in Macedonia-
Sanja Milosavljevic: Skoplje, in Macedonia.
Rafaela Rica: Skoplje. But I was really pleased to accept your invitation. I always try to do so whenever I see other successful women on the other side of the screen – or table. But unfortunately now we’re just sharing screens. (laughter)
Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, that’s- we all live in this Zoom era. Like, cogito ergo zoom. So we are always speaking to other people over Zoom. And luckily for me I feel that’s an opportunity. Like okay, we can’t meet, we can’t speak in person but still we can communicate. So for me it’s fine. Can you tell us something about yourself. I know, I read your CV, we met, we spoke earlier, but can you tell us something about yourself? What is your educational background and how is it connected to your present work?
Rafaela Rica: Well, I’m Rafaela Rica. As you said, I come from Albania. I’ve been now in business since 1999. So, exactly – by coincidence – today is 21st birthday of Iceberg Communications.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Oh, congratulations!
Rafaela Rica: Yes, because now that I was speaking I said “oh my god”, it’s the 22nd of December 1999, so wow. It’s been quite some years now – two decades. I graduated – my main Bachelor’s degree is in English language. After that I studied a Master’s in Business Administration in Switzerland and now actually I’m attending my PhD studies in Austria. My thesis is for the factors that are influencing the women entrepreneurs. So which are the factors that the women are starting – or preventing women from – starting a business. So, it’s been almost two years now that I’m doing this research and it’s absolutely fantastic what I’m doing, because I’m also learning a lot about entrepreneurship environment in Albania. And so I hope I can answer some of the questions in this regard. And not only also in the Balkans because previously I started research for the whole Balkan research. But because the sample size was very wide, my professor who is supervising my thesis, she recommended me to narrow it to Albania because it was a huge amount of work. But as you know I’m having an influence also in different projects in the region. So it hasn’t been as much about the studies as much as it is about the experience. And you know that because we also met and that’s how we got to know each other and that’s how I got to know a lot of marvelous, very great business women around the Balkans. And this is fantastic whenever we get the chance to meet each other.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, I agree. And I remember that master class in Skoplje. Not just because only ladies were sitting in the room, but their stories, their experiences, their points of view, the way they run their businesses, the sectors they run their businesses in – so it was a very important experience for me. So what are the factors that prevent ladies from starting their own businesses and what are the factors that actually help them to thrive? Can you just give us an example?
Rafaela Rica: I will give a very short story about how I started and maybe doing so I might explain more about how I think ladies and women should start. And personally if I’m being honest I was 23 years old when I started the business and I was just having one year of experience in one of the biggest newspapers in Albania and that was actually very good experience for me and the worst for somebody else I must say. And then I was loving that job, I was very successful. As soon as I entered maybe in six months I was selling a lot of advertisement spots for the newspaper. So somehow I became the star of the newspaper because I was being paid on commissions and as such I was being paid more than anyone in the- even more than the editor in chief and he was a very well-known journalist in Albania. And he was calling me to his office and said “Rafaela, but you are fantastic – how you manage to do all this work?”. I said it’s nothing, I just simply- I didn’t stop for a single day. I was every day knocking on doors and I was not the shy type so I could step on the door of old clients and also – we’re talking 21 years ago – everybody was asking me ‘but what is advertisement, why do we need to advertise’? And then I saw that it was fantastic and how much money you can make with that. Then I thought even doing business with that would be easy, but actually it was not. Because then I had this idea – why should I do for just one newspaper, when I could do it for other media. We’re talking about a time when there were not a lot of private media in Albania. There was the national television and after that some few televisions started to open and also some newspaper, but it was not- the media landscape was not as it is today. So I said well, let me do this and actually I just had this lamp coming as an idea to do an advertising agency. And because we couldn’t have internet back then, I was going to source foundation offices and we could access there. So I was trying to Google and to check what is an advertising agency. It was helping me a lot the fact that I could speak good English and that I could write. And then I was deciding the name and I thought it should be something- Iceberg was a very interesting name to me. It was something that was showing strength and it was sharp and it was potent and you know at that time I thought – it could sink a Titanic so I thought Iceberg could be the name. Iceberg Communications. And that’s how I started actually. It was just this crazy idea and I never even thought what I was doing and I didn’t know actually what was coming. But to be honest this was maybe the good part of it. Because if you think too much and if you are “I go, no go” maybe I found a momentum and in that moment in Albania it was a huge demand for different kind of businesses – anything. I was also then checking who else was in the market doing the same job and there were four or five. And I’m not sure if it’s that I persevered or if it is that I survived or if it is that I was taking it seriously because I was a woman, but out of these four or five only one company is still existing. All the rest closed, or they differentiated their business in another type of marketing and communications agency and they were doing other things. So, coming back to your question – I have to say that there are a lot of reasons that women are deciding to go into business. First, it is for sure the need to be free, to do your own business, to give opportunity to other people. But then there are little factors that are preventing other women that are great, that are capable, that are brilliant but because they think they have a family, they have other roles in the society. Then they are not taking the initiative or they’re saying that maybe another job could be better and safer for them. Another reason is the mentality – at least when I started it was kind of utopic for a women to go into a business. I remember when I told my father he was like “What, what are you gonna do? No, you should find a job, you should get married, you should have kids.” I said yeah, but that doesn’t prevent me from also starting a business. So the mentality – I’m not sure how it is in Serbia, maybe in Serbia is even- is much better because you are I think even from the Communism times I have to say you were having many more advantages compared to us. Because the Communism we went through was severe. Like traveling – we couldn’t travel anywhere else and it was- no one could do their own business. So you know, it was- we were living in Communism but we were so closed from Europe so we had no idea also what was happening out of- which you didn’t have in this case. Because I think Tito was more open, somehow. But I’m not saying it was- it was still- but slightly better, not as severe as here. So for Albanians it was- and I’m talking just- I started nine years after the fall of Communism, so it was not that long. Also another reason is the lack of finances. And when I do mentorship I always tell as much as I can ‘money is just a tool’. It’s an instrument to send you from here to here. But it’s not that important. If you have a great idea you can do it even without money. For sure you’ll need money on the way and you find ways, you know, doing business you have to go in different- it’s a rollercoaster I say.
Sanja Milosavljevic: (laughter) It is a rollercoaster, yes.
Rafaela Rica: Yeah. So, you just start and be serious about it and be consecutive on what you do and have responsibility because it’s not just you. You have other actors involved, you have a team that you have to- that you’re responsible for. Now in my team I have people working for me for 19 years or 20 years.
Sanja Milosavljevic: That’s a huge thing.
Rafaela Rica: That is something. It means they are more precious than the assets of the company – they are an asset to the company absolutely. And more than half of the team is working for over 15 years. So somehow they’re spending their best part of their lives in your company so that means that your responsibility is for them and their whole family they are keeping. And then you have to-
Sanja Milosavljevic: Sorry, are you- sorry, sorry to interrupt you. But I would be very proud – extremely proud – if I can say that I have a person working as a part of my team for 19 or 20 years. Are you a proud lady? I would be extremely proud.
Rafaela Rica: I am very, very proud. And sometimes I feel guilty for not being able to give enough appreciation to them. Not only to one person but to all of my team. Because to be honest all is because of them, so this is absolutely fantastic and it is a value. It is a value that values more than money I would say.
Sanja Milosavljevic: As you said money is just a tool. It’s not-
Rafaela Rica: And then other things, but these are most important. Like taking initiative is – some people are brave and they do it. And I’m always telling the younger generation and other women entrepreneurs when they start. I’m just saying ‘don’t think it twice’. I’m not saying you should not be careful in what you do – but I’m just telling them ‘do it’. Don’t stay there one year, two years. I have also some mentees that are there for two years and they’re not yet starting the businesses. In two years you could’ve had a business that’s two years old. So this is actually what I’m trying to tell them. And yeah, then for sure now it’s different in Albania because there’s a totally different environment. The ecosystem now is created here. We have the government now supporting startups or new businesses with- or at least facilitating with taxes and infrastructure. And this is a big support. Then we have international organizations supporting a lot with different programs. The embassies are doing a great job. We have support from other countries like Switzerland that has a significant role here in Albania with different projects on entrepreneurship. And we have Swedish embassy, American embassy with different projects of USAID, UN for women so it’s a completely different environment. So now the puzzle of the ecosystem is almost like figure- the figure is clear now. Because there’s also the media that is talking a lot about it. There are also universities that are- that have started to do a lot of- take positive steps in this regard, like putting entrepreneurship as a subject in universities. They are doing different projects and internships and different activities as well coming from universities. And there are mentors now that are- and coaches that are mentoring and coaching young and new businesses and entrepreneurs, so it’s completely different now. The opportunities are huge and higher. It’s just that what is lacking and what we try to do a lot is to bring as much as possible – the same as I think what you’re trying to do – is bringing as much as possible role models. Because what we need to do now is to shift the mindset, actually. Because the mindset is what- the mindset is yet in Albania that it’s good to have a job because that’s where you’re safer. You’re getting a salary at the end of the month and you’re safer so you’re not putting the family or yourself in trouble. So it’s just going for the easy side-
Sanja Milosavljevic: Easy way. When you’re-
Rafaela Rica: Easy way. Sanja, you have your coffee?
Sanja Milosavljevic: Well I’ve had my coffee and now I have only water. But when you run your own business you actually are responsible for everyone. Not just for the business, but for the cash-flow for your team members, for getting new jobs. The responsibilities are bigger but the stakes are also bigger. So as you said at the beginning you are actually not buying but gaining freedom when you run your own business and I agree with you. And regarding the things that you said – it is maybe a bit different in Serbia, but still we don’t have that entrepreneur mindset. We are doing a lot as you said there are activities, there are projects – we are trying to develop the project ecosystem but there is still a lot of work ahead of us.
Rafaela Rica: There is.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So let me just ask you one question and it is connected to your previous answer. How do you manage or micromanage your team? Or what style of team leader do you practice?
Rafaela Rica: Well, now after all these years I have gained my complete independence and when I say so – I have 100% delegated my work to my team. Even recently I have the CEO of my company. Myself I am just the founder and I am also responsible for the registration of the business tax, offices and all this. My figure in the company is just for PR. So I come here, I’m here once a week and I see what’s going on and for sure I am doing PR and to clients everywhere I go, but it’s not on the daily basis and I’ve completely got out of the business. And it’s so important that you – when you start a business you should know that the business is your lifestyle. It means that you cannot work for 12 hours as I did in the beginning and as everyone who started the business is doing. And you cannot do everything yourself. You have to hire people, train people, trust people. Because it’s more about trust rather than anything else. So it took me some time because I’m 100% sure that we all have this mania that nobody is doing it properly. But this is so wrong. It is so wrong. Now, for example I’m- in many cases people don’t know the process of work or who is doing what and sometimes they’ll ask me to do something and I say ‘but I’ll ask the persons responsible’ because I have no clue about this. Let’s say about the Christmas decorations. Because they always say ‘wow you did such a beautiful decoration for the city’ and I’m like yes, but I have no idea how they do it because it’s a whole team doing it. So to be honest now I’m so lucky to have everyone who is in charge and responsible and they are even- absolutely in different fields competent and much better than me. But you should trust them. Even if one time they do it wrong, two times they do it wrong, when they learn it they will do it right. But it’s also very good because when you give freedom to the employees, they’re feeling much better. And I’m not the kind of leader to give pressure – and this was me from the beginning – so I wanted everyone to feel good at work. Not to feel pressure. I’m not saying we should not control or have mechanisms to see, but to be honest I think it’s more about how to- first of all think how the employees are feeling and for sure how we can deliver properly to the clients because for sure the clients are the most important part. But then it’s not- I always thought that to me, team is more important than the clients. Because if the team is feeling good and I’ve taken many times to train the team now and then, to make them travel to see what’s going on so that they are not only seeing the market in Albania and so on. So in that I am investing on the team. And that’s very important also, because in our industry as you know in communications, marketing, event industry, decorations that we are also doing, the trends are changing very rapidly and we need to adapt to new technologies also now also coming to the situation now that we were not prepared, but you should get out of the comfort zone sometimes to strive as you said. To see and to shift the business into a different business model.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So did you have to change? Sorry. Did you have to change your business or your business model in the past nine months? Since the beginning of the pandemic.
Rafaela Rica: This year was a year that taught us in all regards, not only in business, but also in life first of all what we should prize and how important are certain things we took for granted. And also it taught us we should be prepared because we never know what’s coming. You should always have a plan B. And for our industry it was almost 7-8 months zero, zero turnover. So for three months we were not working, then we started to work from home and then we partially began to come into the office but despite that we were not invoicing any- to any clients for 7-8 months. And then I had also the responsibility to keep the team because you know – people that have been working for you for so long you cannot in a first crisis just send them home. And that to me was really the most challenging time in these 21 years. Because as I said I was not forseeing it. And as you may recall last year, at the end of the year which is also our best period of the year because we have a lot of business with decorations for events. So the last three months of the year are somehow the most important months for the job. And we had an earthquake last year, and in the end of November that was the first hit, and then it was the pandemic coming in on March and then it was- you know how it rolled throughout the year and that’s a chain actually because of lack of work and because we worked with other countries. Because we are getting the raw materials from China and China was completely locked-down and we had to wait until they opened to order goods. Then we had the goods arriving but the paperwork was ending up in Bulgaria instead in Albania. I think that this situation really was very hard but it grew us in different regards, but more it grew us as humans because this was the moment we had to show ourselves that the business was here, we kept it, it’s- together we gained forces. So we kind of encouraged each other I have to say. Even in moments that we were saying like what should we do now. We were gathering every beginning of the month and saying what are we going to do now? Can we keep another month and not send anybody home and not size-down the business and…and we did it, actually and we have now another 25 people coming in for the last two months. Because as I said we do everything these last two months. And we started to invoice two or three weeks ago. It was like oh my god, we were looking forward to going back to normal. But also I was while going through this craziness I was always thinking ‘why did this happen?’ so somehow lesson learned is that you must always have a plan B. We now learn that it’s so important- and this is so- I cannot say funny but somehow it is funny because I’m mentoring startups and I’m telling everyone who is coming up with ideas “you should think of something that is related to technology, to digitalization, you should shift the business model to that” and I was not doing it for myself. I was going through old ways of doing events, live events, decorations only with the- and then I said how can we do it more interactive, how can we sell online. So we started, we built a platform. We had built it actually three years ago and we were not using it much and it was like- word for word translation is like “christmas tree dot albania” and it was for selling Christmas trees online, so we deliver Christmas trees to the door of the client – with the decorations, with the light, with the everything. And this year we said “wow, we have this – why we are not using it” so let’s do some advertisement, some boosting on social media and it worked perfectly. A lot of clients were because of also the lack of time partially now the lockdown so- it was working. So you see we said well, we thought of that, we didn’t use it and now is the moment. And also now I’m- as I said I went out of Iceberg because now Iceberg can stay, it’s 21 years old, it can continue itself and I’m now building a different company. It’s called Tech 01 and that’s going to be a digital marketing agency. And we are actually planning also to train young people, but mostly women because you know I have a soft spot because we need more women in technology and in these new professions that are now coming. I’m always telling whenever I can to audiences that you should see and turn the eyes and the ears to the new professions, so- because if everyone wants to become a business administrator, everyone wants to become an engineer but no one is thinking that now we have a lot of professions coming and who would’ve thought that 20 years ago or 30 years ago that we could- the whole world could go through Zoom. So everything should go through digitalization. I was- last year I was in a panel and I was also in a panel with Milo from Belgrade – he is managing a PR and marketing company 2M communications. And now we are also cooperating for a project in Albania and also with some other representatives from the event industry. And I didn’t know, it was a year ago and I said- I was having a question asked what is going to be the future of events and I said- but I didn’t know actually, it was just that I was always thinking that this would happen and I said “the future of events would be viral and virtual” and then one day my social media expert was bringing this up and she said “you said this when there was no pandemic” and it was like in December of- I said yes, I had that feeling. I always think, at least I have intuition. Because I think that’s what makes a difference in different people. Intuition, the gut feeling- the intuition is always leading you somewhere.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Sorry to interrupt you, but do you think intuition is a skill or- I don’t want to say skill, but something that is typical for women or is it actually typical for entrepreneurs and business people? That gut feeling?
Rafaela Rica: I think it hasn’t got a gender. The gut feeling- I mean, we as women are more sensitive. And we are more sensitive and we are keen on details, more- we listen to our inner voices. Maybe men they feel it, but they don’t stay there and listen carefully. As you know men are more on macro-managing rather than- I cannot generalize, but in general, I’m saying as a type. We are there to be more- how to say- empathetic, more- we are having- all our inner side is somehow reflecting our decisions, our- and I should say that this is very important when you’re managing businesses and that’s why I say maybe also from statistic women are not gaining as much money as men is not just to make money. We have to make other people feel good, we think of other people’s problems .We are always there taking care somehow of- and this is more about women I should say than men. But I should say this is not a generalization because there are also sensitive men who also feel the same. But as I said in business we are not just “oh let’s make money” and that’s how I can explain. Because in all the research that I did – men who are doing the same business, the same identical business, they are gaining more money than women. So because now I think it’s not that women are not capable, it’s that women are not aiming just for money. And another thing that I am always bringing up aloud is that men are creating alliances, networks, gentlemen’s clubs and they’re doing business with each other. Whereas women somehow- it’s not good to say but sometimes they are feeling jealousy among them. No, no I’m not saying among everyone but there is some jealousy sometimes among women doing business. And they are not as much connected, exchanging business with each other, creating these alliances among each other. And this is something we should definitely do. Personally, whenever I can give some business to a woman, I go and I find who is that woman. So if I have to choose- and I’m not saying that I would not choose quality, but I’m saying if I have two similar businesses to do business with and one is being managed by a woman and one by a man, I would prefer to go do that service or that outsourcing to a business that is managed by a women .Just for this fact that we should give each other more support and empower each other. Because I’m sure that if we do it bit by bit, because this is not a problem only in our countries, this is a worldwide problem. And whenever we can we should also raise our voices when you’re doing the same job in the same company. Let’s say you have two IT and a woman and a man – a man is always paid more than a woman. This is not right.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Well it’s the same here in Serbia, I know.
Rafaela Rica: I think it’s the same everywhere in the world.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Interesting, that’s interesting. I agree with you. I don’t know if we are shy or we are jealous of each other or we don’t actually think in terms of business, but I agree men easily make alliances, they easily network wherever they go. Maybe they play football with their friends in the evening, or they have coffee or a drink with a friend, they easily make those alliances. Women, we just take more time. It just really takes more time to make those connections to empower each other and support each other.
Rafaela Rica: But we should also agree that there has been a tremendous advancement and a very good step on the positive side I should say. Be it for more women in business. And I’m so happy to go and I’m in some jury and I see more women and men, I’m flattered. Not because to me is the same – we need more younger generation, more independent people, more entrepreneurs be them men or not, but when there are more females it means that it’s a very positive step in the whole society .I mean more independent women means an equal society, means independence in the economical side, it brings freedom to women and we don’t have what we see in most cases this gender inequity. So it’s great that at least in Albania I’ve seen it a lot, but I’m sure also in the region, in the Balkans. I see that also in Kosovo, I saw that when we were in Macedonia, I was in Serbia and I met ivana and we were discussing and she was explaining a bit about the situation and she said there were many more women now coming in from doing their own businesses, quitting their jobs and starting a business – this is great.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Small steps. Small, great steps. Do you- well, it just crossed my mind. In Serbia, women can get the loans from the banks but it’s maybe harder because most of the time they don’t have any kind of- they cannot give a- what’s the word…deposit, or something like that…
Rafaela Rica: Collateral, yes, they need a collateral – mortgage or something.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Yeah, collateral. What’s the situation in Albania?
Rafaela Rica: It is very- it’s more or less the same and it’s a big problem here. Becase the access to finances is one of the biggest problems I have to say. And I’m sure that it should be a higher effort from the government to the bank institutions and also mostly to the bank of the states that they should give- at least for these small loans, let’s say. Because a startup is not asking for a lot of money. First of all they should not be shark loans. Because most of the cases are shark loans and this is completely unacceptable that they’re giving you some money and they’re getting from you the double of it. Secondly, it should absolutely- they should support businesses, not to ask for collateral. Because I went through that and I always say this story that it was so embarrassing for my parents when I was asking them to put their house up for three years. My father and my mother I’m sure they were not sleeping calm because they thought I’d go into bankruptcy. And imagine every family- and you know how important it is for them to buy a house and to have the only thing in their whole life is that house and then they might risk it from the adventures of the kid. But in this case it’s such a pity that for 5k, 10k, 20k they are putting them in such big troubles. It’s so crazy that they are not facilitating or at least making this possible. In most cases it does not happen because at this age not everyone has collateral and not everybody has family that can support them with their house or their property. And this is one of the biggest things that should change. And I’m not sure if this will happen from the bank sector unless the government puts some pressure on them. There are some programs that are also supporting financially some startups. But to be honest in the start I was not much agreeing with those. Because you know, when you’re starting a business you need to rush to do many other things, you need to try to find clients, to set up the business, to learn the whole process of work and when you see these entrepreneurs going for these projects just for getting these 3000 euros or 5000 euros and spending six months after that. And I was always saying that maybe we were killing the vibe of entrepreneurs. Because they were waiting that money and they’re losing the focus to make other money. And I had many cases telling them “how much time did you spend waiting for that if you could’ve spent that time in trying to find clients”. You could have double or triple that money. So this is- I’m not- personally, I’m not fan much of saying they should give free money to entrepreneurs, but rather than helping them to get a loan so they’re also responsible for paying it back and not losing much time over response and not doing the job then. Then you lose the picture and then you- then you get tired of this maybe in most of the cases you don’t even get the fund so you lost time and you got deluded from what and then, so…I think the focus is success and they should focus and for sure then also finding financial means is very important, but if you could do that just by taking a loan with low percentage and no collateral then that could be the solution I think.
Sanja Milosavljevic: That’s, yeah – I know. Because while you’re chasing those funds you are actually as you said losing time from finding new clients or finding ways to earn money to sustain your company. I know, it’s similar here. So we came to the end of our conversation and I usually like to ask my guests to send a message to the world. So, what would you say to the world, or to the future ladies in business.
Rafaela Rica: First of all, I would say that if they ask me if I could go again back and do what I did I would say yes and yes always- I would go for doing my own business. It’s the satisfaciton is huge, it’s much more than anything else compared to all the worries and all that you go through, the freedom and satisfaction is huge. And as I said it’s got nothing to do with how much money you make. It has to do with- like you find the higher purpose of life by helping also other people. By becoming a model, by showing the world that you can, by being financially independent, by changing the world. You’re a small world, but if we all do that, it means that the world would be the better world. And I would also say to them – start a business, stay always- think a step forward and stay always- because we are living in a- think a jail, how I would say. We are living in a rapid-changing world and everything is changing rapidly and fast. So go with that, see always what’s coming, see where you- what would be a profession or business that might serve you in ten years. And this is- and you know, the word now that we should say is ‘adapt and change’, adapt and change daily and this hasn’t got to do only with business but with yourself first. And those are the- the last and most important one is to stay safe, because the most important part of our life is to be safe. And that also in this situation we maybe lost friends and people we knew very young and we see we are living in a very uncertain world and that nothing has sense unless you have good health. I’m always trying to inspire people to live a healthy lifestyle, keep the immune system high, work more with energies, spirituality, yoga. Because in the end all the materialistic things go. In one day you lose your business – you see how it went. And all what is left and the house we have to live until the end of our life is ourselves. So that is important to take care of it in all regards. And I mean it, because we never- even when we have a meal, we never see it as- just think what you’re eating and how that can impact your digestive system and the same with thoughts. Just think what thoughts you have in your mind. Because if you have got negative thoughts, these negative thoughts will drag you down and down and it becomes like a snowball. So just think positive. I’m a lot following, listening to all these spiritual leaders. Because for a reason all the most famous and most successful people in the world, after they became successful they are trying to find and to get to know themselves better. So leave always that window open to get to know yourself better and then if you believe in God in the universe you will know there will always be a manifestation there. And this has helped me a lot in my life, it has changed my life. Since I started to shift – getting negative people out of my life, focusing on positivity, not being there all money, work. Okay, it’s there, we should be responsible but it’s not only that. And then enjoying life, enjoying as much as possible, smiling as much as possible – we need this positivity. And then as I said going through this spiritual journey for me is a life-changing experience and that is something that I strongly encourage everybody to do, because it’s really- then in the core we see that we are left with nothing when we- from this world what we will be left is just what we did, how many lives we impacted, how well we lived our own life. Then the rest, none of us is taking any suitcase when we go. So yeah, health is very important both mentally and physically and everything, so. As we are now – because we are now close to Christmas so we need to become more…
Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, I know. Thank you Rafaela, I really appreciate the time you dedicated to this interview. Thank you for everything you said, thank you for the advice you shared. Especially because you have a really wide experience, so it’s not something you just maybe read in a book, it’s something you had your own experience. Thank you, I really enjoyed this conversation.
Rafaela Rica: Thank you so much. It was such a pleasure for me as well and I wish you a merry Christmas and a much better year 2021.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, 2021 has to be better than this one. I mean, it cannot be worse than this one so it has to be better anyway. Dear people, you were listening to Rafaela Rica. She comes from Albania and I really hope you enjoyed as much as I did this conversation. You can always follow us on social media like Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and you can subscribe to our YouTube channel. And as Rafaela said stay safe, stay good, stay in good health and see you in a week.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Dobri ljudi, moje ime je Sanja Milosavljević i biću vaša voditeljka danas. Gledate Mondopreneur podcast a ovaj projekat je podržala Ambasada Amerike u Beogradu. Ideja koja stoji iza ovog projekta je da podelimo priče uspešnih žena na svetu i da vidimo kako su se njihovi životi transformisali tokom pandemije. Nadam se da ćete uživati u našem razgovoru. Moja današnja gošća se zove rafaela i dolazi nam iz Albanije. Ona je jedna jako uspešna dama sa preko 20 godina iskustva. Uživajte. Zdravo, Rafaela, kako si?
Rafaela Rica: Zdravo, Sanja – hvala ti na pozivu. Prošlo je dosta vremena od kad smo se poslednji put srele u Makedoniji-
Sanja Milosavljevic: Skopje, Makedonija.
Rafaela Rica: Skopje. Zadovoljstvo mi je bilo da prihvatim tvoj poziv. Uvek to radim kada vidim drugu uspešnu ženu sa druge strane ekrana ili stola. Na žalost, sada samo delimo ekrane. (smeh)
Sanja Milosavljevic: Pa, tako je, živimo u vremenu Zoom-a. Kao ona izreka – Mislim, dakle zumujem. Izgleda da stalno razgovaramo sa drugima preko Zoom-a. Na moju sreću, ja to doživljavam kao šansu. U redu, ne možemo da se sastajemo, ne možemo da razgovaramo uživo, ali i dalje možemo da komuniciramo. Tako da mi je to u redu. Da li možeš da nam kažeš nešto o sebi? Znam, pročitala sam tvoj CV, upoznale smo se, ranije razgovarale, ali da li možeš da nam kažeš nešto o sebi? Šta si po obrazovanju i kako je to u vezi sa onim čime se danas baviš?
Rafaela Rica: Zovem se Rafaela Rica. Kao što si rekla, dolazim iz Albanije. U biznisu sam od 1999. godine. Tačno, kakva slučajnost, danas je 21. rođendan Iceberg Communications kompanije.
Sanja Milosavljevic: O, čestitam!
Rafaela Rica: Da, sad, dok sam govorila, rekla sam u sebi: “Bože, to je bilo 22. decembra, 1999. godine”. To je dosta vremena, dve decenije. Diplomirala sam na smeru za Engleski jezik. Nakon toga sam studirala poslovnu administraciju u Švajcarskoj a sada sam na doktorskim studijama u Austriji. Moja teza se odnosi na faktore koji utiču na žensko preduzetništvo. Dakle, koji su to faktori koji pomažu ili sprečavaju žene da započnu svoj posao. Prošle su skoro dve godine od kada sam počela da radim na istraživanju i savršeno je to što radim, jer učim o preduzetničkom okruženju u Albaniji. Nadam se da ću moći da odgovorim na neka pitanja koja se odnose na to. I ne samo za Balkan, jer sam u početku istraživanja bila okrenuta regionu Balkana. Kako je uzorak bio preširok, profesorka koji mi je mentorka na tezi mi je preporučila da suzim polje istraživanja na Albaniju, jer bi to bilo preširoko polje za rad. Kao što znaš, uključena sam u različite projekte u regionu. Tako da nisu u pitanju samo studije, koliko je stvar samog iskustva. Upoznata si sa tim jer smo se tako i upoznale i upoznala sam mnoge divne, uspešne poslovne žene sa balkana. I to je predivno, kad god možemo da se sretnemo.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, slažem se. I sećam se tog master class-a u Skopju. Ne samo zato što su samo dame sedele u prostoriji, već njihove priče, iskustva, stavovi, način na koji vode svoje firme, sektori kojima pripadaju – tako da je to bilo baš dragoceno iskustvo za mene. Pa, koji su to faktori koji sprečavaju žene da otvore svoje firme a koji su to faktori koji im pomažu da rastu? Da li možeš da nam daš neki primer?
Rafaela Rica: Daću ti kratku priču o tome kako sam ja počela i možda uspem da objasnim kako ja to zamišljam da bi žene trebalo da započnu svoj biznis. Lično, i ako ću da budem iskrena, imala sam 23 godine kada sam otvorila firmu i samo jednu godinu iskustva u jednim od najvećih novina u Albaniji, i to je zapravo bilo baš dobro iskustvo za mene, a najgore za nekog drugog, moram to da kažem. I volela sam taj posao, bila sam jako uspešna. Čim sam počela, možda u prvih šest meseci, sam prodavala dosta oglasnog prostora za novine. Nekako sam postala zvezda novina, jer sam bila plaćena na proviziju, i zarađivala sam više od svih – čak i od glavnog urednika a on je bio poznati novinar u Albanjiji. Pozvao me je u kancelariju i rekao: “Rafaela, ti si fantastična – kako uspevaš da uradiš sve ovo?” Rekla sam mu da to nije ništa, ja jednostavno – nisam se zaustavljala. Svakodnevno sam kucala na vrata i nisam bila stidljiva i mogla sam da se pojavim kod starih klijenata. Takođe, da ne zaboravimo, to je bilo pre 21 godinu – svi su me pitali šta je to reklama i zašto moraju da se oglašavaju. I onda sam uvidela da je to sjajno i da možete mnogo da zaradite na prodaji reklamnog prostora. Mislila sam da će biti jednostavno da radim tako, ali zapravo nije. Jer mi je onda pala na pamet ideja – zašto da radim ovo samo za jedne novine, kada mogu to radim i za druge medije. Govorimo o vremenu kada nije bilo mnogo privatnih medijskih kuća u Albaniji. Postojala je nacionalna televizija, zatim nekoliko novih televizija je počelo sa radom i neke novine, ali medijsko okruženje nije bilo kao što je danas. I rekla sam, u redu, daj da uradim to, i onda mi je samo sinula lampica kao ideja, da otvorim reklamnu agenciju. I kako nismo imali internet tada, otišla sam do kancelarija fondacije i odatle sam mogla da pristupim internetu. Otišla sam na Google i proverila šta je to reklamna agencija. Od velike pomoći mi je bilo što sam govorila engleski jezik dobro i što sam umela da pišem na engleskom. A onda sam morala da odlučim kako će se zvati firma i da treba da bude zvučno – Iceberg mi je bilo interesantno ime. To je ime koje pokazuje snagu, i oštro je i puno potencijala i u to vreme sam mislila – Iceberg (ledeni breg) je mogao da potopi brod Titanik, pa sam pomislila da bi Iceberg moglo biti to ime. Iceberg Communications. I tako sam zapravo počela. To je bila jedna luda ideja, nisam razmišljala o tome šta radim niti šta me čeka. Ali da budem iskrena, to je možda bio dobar deo toga. Jer ako razmišljate previše, i ako ste – hoću-neću… Možda sam ja našla pravi trenutak, jer tada je u Albaniji postojala velika tražnja za najrazličitijim biznisima – sve. Takođe sam proverila ko se još na tržištu bavi ovim poslom, i postojalo je četiri ili pet firmi. Ne znam da li je do toga što sam uporna, ili što sam preživela, ili što sam posao shvatala ozbiljno jer sam žena, ali od ovih četiri ili pet firmi, samo jedna još uvek postoji. Sve ostale su se zatvorile, ili su diferencirale svoje poslovanje u neku drugu vrstu marketinga i komunikacija i sada rada druge stvari. Dakle, da se vratim na tvoje pitanje – postoji mnogo razloga zašto se žene upuštaju u privatni biznis. Prvo, sigurno je da žele da budu slobodne, da vode svoje firme, da daju šansu drugim ljudima. Ali onda postoje i oni fakori koji sprečavaju žene koje su divne, sposobne, brilijantne, ali misle da imaju porodice, i da imaju druge uloge u društvu. I onda ne preduzimaju inicijativu i govore da bi drugi posao možda bio bolji i sigurniji za njih. Drugi razlog je mentalitet – makar kada sam ja počinjala, to je bila svojevrsna utopija za žene da otvore svoje firme. Sećam se kada sam rekla ocu da me je pitao:”Šta, šta ćeš da uradiš? “Ne, treba da nađeš posao, da se udaš, da rodiš decu.” Da, ali to me ne sprečava da otvorim svoju firmu. Dakle, mentalitet – ne znam kako je u Srbiji, možda je u Srbiji čak i bolje, jer mislim da još iz perioda komunizma vi ste imali više prilika u odnosu na nas. Komunizam kroz koji smo mi prošli je bio surov. Na primer, putovanja – nismo mogli da putujemo i niko nije mogao da vodi privatnu firmu. Živeli smo u komunizmu i bili smo zatvoreni za Evropu, i nismo znali šta se dešava napolju – što nije bio vaš slučaj. Jer mislim da je Tito bio otvoreniji. Ne kažem da nije bilo – ali je bilo malo bolje, ne tako surovo kao kod nas. Za Albance je bilo – i govorim za vreme kada sam ja počela – to je bilo 9 godina nakon pada komunizma, dakle, nije prošlo mnogo vremena. Još jedan razlog je nedostatak finansija. I kada sam mentorka, uvek kažem, kad god mogu da je novac samo alatka. Instrument koji te šalje sa jednog mesta na drugo. Ali nije toliko važan. Ako imaš dobru ideju, možeš da je realizuješ i bez novca. Naravno da ti je potreban novac, ali možeš da nađeš načina, jer privatni biznis te vodi u različitim pravcima to je jedan tobogan.
Sanja Milosavljevic: (smeh) Da, tobogan.
Rafaela Rica: Da. Dakle, samo počni, budi ozbiljan i dosledan u onome što radiš i odgovoran jer nisi samo ti u pitanju. Postoje i drugi ljudi koji su uključeni, postoji tim za koji si odgovoran. Ja u timu imam ljude koji rade kod mene 19 ili 20 godina.
Sanja Milosavljevic: To je baš ozbiljna stvar.
Rafaela Rica: Da, to je nešto. Oni su vredniji od imovine firme – oni su preimućstvo firme. A više od polovine time radi preko 15 godina kod mene. Nekako, provode najbolje godine svojih života u vašoj kompaniji a to znači da ste odgovorni za njih i za njihove porodice. A onda morate da-
Sanja Milosavljevic: Izvini, izvini što te prekidam. Ja bih bila baš ponosna – izuzetno ponosna- da mogu da kažem da neko radi kao deo mog tima 19 ili 20 godina. Da li si ti ponosna? Ja bih bila.
Rafaela Rica: Jako sam ponosna. I ponekad imam osećaj krivice jer ne mogu da dovoljno da im se zahvalim. Ne samo jednoj osobi, već celom mom timu. Da budem iskrena, sve je to zbog njih, i to je fantastično i prava je vrednost. A to je vrednost koja vredi više nego novac, rekla bih
Sanja Milosavljevic: Kao što si rekla, novac je samo alatka. Nije-
Rafaela Rica: I neke druge stvari, ali ove su najvažnije. Naprimer, preduzimanje inicijative – neki ljudi su hrabri. I to uvek govorim mlađoj generaciji i drugim preduzetnicama na njihovom početku. Uvek kažem – ne premišljaj se. Ne kažem da ne treba da budu pažljive u tome što rade – samo im kažem – uradite to. Ne ostajte na jednom mestu, godinu ili dve. Imam neke mentorine koje pratim već dve godine i još uvek nisu osnovale firme. Za dve godine su mogle da vode posao koji postoji već dve godine. To je ono što pokušavam da im kažem. I naravno, zasigurno, sada je drugačije u Albaniji jer je klima potpuno drugačija. Sada smo stvorili ekosistem. Vlada podržava start-upe ili početnike u poslovanju ili im makar pomaže sa taksama i infrastrukturom. A to je velika podrška. I imamo međunarodne organizacije koje pomažu dosta kroz različite programe. I ambasade rade odličan posao. Imamo podršku drugih zemalja kao što je Švajcarska koja ima veliku ulogu uvde u Albaniji sa različitim projektima posvećenim preduzetništvu. Tu su Ambasada Švedske, Ambasada Amerike, sa različitim projektima USAID, UN za žene, tako da je sada potpuno drugačije okruženje. Slagalica ekosistema sada ima obrise – to je sada jedna jasna slika. A tu su i mediji koji dosta govore o tome. Tu su i univerziteti koji su počeli dosta da rade na tome, na primer, uveli su predmet Preduzetništvo u kurikulum. Rade na različitim projektima i organizuju različite aktivnosti. Postoje i mentori i koučevi koji pružaju usluge mentoringa i konsultacija mladim i novim biznisima i preduzetnicima, tako da je sada potpuno drugačije. Šanse su ogromne i visoke. Ono što nam nedostaje i što pokušavamo da uradimo što je moguće više – a to je isto ono što mislim da i ti pokušavaš – je da pokažemo što je moguće više pozitivnih uzora. Ono što sada moramo da uradimo je da promenimo stav, zapravo. Stav u Albaniji je još uvek da je dobro imati stalni posao jer je to bezbednije. Primaš platu na kraju meseca i sigurniji si, ne izlažeš problemima sebe i porodicu. Dakle, ide se linijom manjeg otpora.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Lakši način. Kada ćeš-
Rafaela Rica: Lakši način. Sanja, da li piješ kafu?
Sanja Milosavljevic: Već sam popila kafu, sada pijem vodu. Kada vodiš svoju firmu, ti si zašravo odgovoran za svakoga. Ne samo za posao, već i za protok novca, za članove tima, za dobijanje novih poslova. Odgovornost je veća ali je i ulog veći. Kao što si rekla na početku, ti ne kupuješ već stičeš slobodu kada vodiš svoju firmu, i slažem se sa tobom. A što se tiče onoga što si rekla, da su stvari drugačije u Srbiji, ni mi još uvek nemamo taj preduzetnički stav. Radimo dosta na tome, postoje brojne aktivnosti, projekti – pokušavamo da razvijemo ekosistem, ali još uvek ima dosta posla.
Rafaela Rica: Ima posla.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Dozvoli mi da te pitam nešto što je u vezi sa tvojim prethodnim odgovorom. Kako upravljaš timom? Ili koji stil upravljanja timom praktikuješ?
Rafaela Rica: Nakon svih ovih godina, stekla sam punu nezavisnost i kada to kažem – delegirala sam 100% posla svom timu. Od nedavno imam i CEO u firmi. Ja sam samo osnivačica i odgovorna sam za registrovanje poreza, za poslovni prostor i slično. Moja uloga u firmi – ja sam samo PR. Dođem na posao, a dolazim jednom nedeljno da vidim šta se dešava. Svakako da radim PR za klijente svuda gde idem, ali to nije na dnevnom nivou i ja sam se potpuno povukla iz posla. I ono što je važno – kada započinješ neki posao, trebalo bi da znaš da je tvoj posao tvoj životni stil. To znači da ne možeš da radiš 12 sati dnevno kao što si mogao na početku i kao što radi svako ko započinje neki biznis. I ne možeš da radiš sve sama. Moraš da zaposliš ljude, moraš da obučiš ljude i moraš da veruješ ljudima. Jer se tu najviše radi o poverenju. Bilo mi je potrebno vreme, jer sam 100% sigurna da svi imamo ovu maniju da niko drugi ne radi posao bolje od nas. Ali to je tako pogrešno. Pogrešno. Na primer, sada – u nekim slučajevima ljudi ne poznaju ceo proces rada ili ko radi šta i ponekad me pitaju da ja uradim nešto, a ja im odgovorim da ću pitati osobu koja je zadužena za to – jer ja ne znam ništa o tome. Na primer, dekoracija za Božić. Uvek mi kažu da sam uradila tako divnu dekoraciju grada za Božić, i ja im kažem, da, ali ne znam kako su to uradili, jer ceo tim stoji iza toga. Da budem iskrena, srećna sam što su ljudi na pozicijama kompetentni u svojim poljima rada i mnogo bolji od mene. Ali moraš da im veruješ. Čak i ako pogreše jednom ili dva puta, tada uče i sledeći put će uraditi kako treba. To je takođe dobro, jer kada pružiš slobodu zaposlenima, oni se odećaju bolje. A ja nisam liderka koja nameće pritisak – to nisam bila ni na početku – želela sam da se svi osećaju dobro na poslu. A ne pod pritiskom. Ne kažem da ne treba da postoji kontrola ili mehanizmi za proveru, ali da budem iskrena, tu je važnije kako se zaposleni oseća i kako će isporučiti posao klijentu, jer su klijenti zasigurno najvažniji deo posla. Ali i nisu – uvek sam mislila da je tim mnogo važniji od klijenata. Ako se tim oseća dobro, a ja ih šaljem na obuke, na putovanja da vide šta se dešava negde drugde a ne samo na tražištu Albanije. Tako investiram u svoj tim. A i to je izuzetno važno, jer u našoj industriji, u komunikacijama, marketingu, indstriji događaja, dekoraciji, koju takođe radimo, trendovi se menjaju jako brzo i mi moramo da se prilagođavamo novim tehnologijama, novim situacijama za koje nismo spremni, ali treba da izađemo iz zone komfora i da idemo napred, kao što si rekla. Da vidimo i prebacimo posao na neki drugi poslovni model.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li si ti morala da se menjaš? Izvini! Da li si morala da menjaš svoj posao ili poslovni model u proteklih devet meseci? Od početka pandemije?
Rafaela Rica: Ovo je bila godina koja nas je naučila, sve, ne samo u poslu, već i u životu, da treba da slavimo i koliko su neke stvari važne a uzimamo ih zdravo za gotovo. Naučila nas je takođe, da treba da budemo spremni jer nikada ne znamo šta nas čeka. Uvek treba da imamo plan B. A za našu industriju, to je 7-8 meseci bez ikakvog prihoda. Tri meseca nismo radili, pa smo počeli da radimo od kuće, pa smo delimično počeli da dolazimo na posao ali uprkos tome, nismo izdavali fakture 7-8 meseci klijentima. Imala sam i odgovornost da održim tim jer, znaš – ljude koji rade toliko gudo za tebe ne možeš na znak prve krize da pošalješ kućama. A to je za mene stvarno bilo najizazovnije vreme za ovu 21 godinu. Kao što sam rekla, nisam to predvidela. Ako se sećaš prošle godine, kraj godine je najbolji period godine za nas jer ima dosta posla sa dekoracijama i događajima. Ta poslednja tri meseca godine su nekako najvažniji meseci za posao. Imali smo zemljtres prošle godine, krajem novembra je bio prvi potres, a onda je došla pandemija u martu i to je onda potrajalo cele godine. I to je jedna lančana reakcija, nedostatk posla, jer sarađujemo i sa drugim zemljama. Sirovine nam dolaze iz Kine a Kina je bila potpuno zatvorena i morali smo da čekamo dok se ne otvore da bismo poručili robu. A onda smo morali da čekamo da roba stigne, ali su papiri završili u Bugarskoj umesto u Albaniji. Mislim da je situacija bila baš strašna, ali smo porasli na više načina, porasli smo kao ljudi, jer je ovo bio trenutak u kojem smo morali sebi da pokažemo da su naše firmu tu, da smo ih zadržali i da smo zajedno dobili neku snagu. Na neki način smo ohrabrivali jedni druge. Čak i u trenucima u kojimo smo se pitali šta treba sada da radimo. Okupljali smo se početkom svakog meseca i govorili, šta ćemo sada da radimo? Da li možemo da izdržimo još jedan mesec, da nikome ne damo otkaz, da ne smanjujemo posao i… uspeli smo, zapravo nam se pridružilo još 25 ljudi u poslednja dva meseca. Kao što sam rekla, mi najviše radimo u ova poslednja dva meseca. I počeli smo da izdajemo fakture pre dve ili tri nedelje. Pomislila sam, bože, toliko smo se radovali da možemo da se vratimo u normalu. Ali isto tako, dok smo prolazili kroz ovo ludilo, razmišljala sam o tome – zašto nam se ovo desilo?. I nekako lekcija koju sam naučila je da uvek moram da imam plan B. Sada učimo koliko je to važno – i ovo je, ne mogu da kažem smešno ali je ipak smešno jer sam mentorka start-upima i svima koji dolaze sa nekom idejom govorim da bi trebalo da razmišljaju o nečemu što je u vezi sa tehnologijom, digitalizacijom, da bi trebalo da pomere poslovni model u tom pravcu, a sama to nisam radila. Na stari način sam organizovala događaje, žive događaje, dekoracije – a onda sam rekla da moramo da budemo interaktivniji, da prodajemo on-lajn. I počeli smo, podigli smo platformu. Zapravo smo je podigli pre tri godine i nismo je mnogo koristili a zvala se, doslovno – božićnodrvo.al a prodavali smo božićne jelke klijentima, sa sve dekoracijom, svetlima, sa svim ukrasima. A ove godine smo rekli – mi imamo ovo, zašto ga ne koristimo i odlučili smo da uradimo reklamu, da bustujemo na društvenim mrežama i to je savršeno radilo. Imali smo dosta klijenata, delimično zbog nedostatka vremena a delimično zbog zatvaranja, tako da je radilo. Vidiš, setili smo se toga, nismo ga koristili a sada je pravi trenutak za to. A sada, kao što sam rekla, napustila sam Iceberg posle 21 godinu. Firma može da nastavi sama a ja sada gradim drugačiju kompaniju. Zove se Tech01 i biće digitalna marketinška kompanija. Zapravo, planiramo da obučimo mlade ljude, uglavnom žene, jer sam slaba na žene i potrebno nam je više žena u tehnologijama i novim profesijama budućnosti. Kada god mogu govorim ljudima da treba da upere oči i uši ka novim profesijama – svi žele da budu poslovni administratori ili inženjeri, ali niko ne razmišlja da postoje profesije budućnosti i ko bi rekao pre 20 ili 30 godina da će ceo svet koristiti Zoom. Dakle, sve treba da se digitalizuje. Prošle godine sam učestvovala na panelu sa Mirom iz Beograda, on je direktor i PR marketinsške kompanije M2 Communications. A sada zajedno radimo na projektu u Albaniji i sa nekim drugim predstavnicima iz eventi ndustrije. Tada nisam znala, to je bilo pre godinu dana, pitali su me kakva će biti budućnost događaja i rekla sam,a tada nisam znala, nego sam uvek mislila da će se to desiti i rekla sam da će budućnost biti viralna i virtualna. A onda mi je jednog dana ekspertkinja za društvene mreže to pomenula i rekla da sam to izgovorila pre pandemije. To je bio neki decembar. Da, imala sam takav osećaj. Uvek razmišljam ili makar imam intuiciju. Jer mislim da to pravi razliku među ljudima. Intuicija, taj osećaj iz stomaka – intuicija vas uvek vodi negde.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Izvini što te prekidam, ali da li misliš da intuicija veština, u stvari ne veština nego pre nešto što je tipično za žene ili je to nešto što je tipično za preduzetnike i poslovne ljude? Taj osećaj u stomaku?
Rafaela Rica: Mislim da nije vezano za pol. Taj osećaj u stomaku – mislim, mi kao žene smo senzitivnije. Senzitivnije smo i okrenute smo detaljima, više slušamo taj unutrašnji glas. Možda i muškarci imaju taj osećaj, ali ga ne slušaju pažljivo. Kao što znaš, muškarci su više za taj marko menadžment pre nego… Zapravo ne mogu da generalizujem, više govorim za određeni tip. Mi smo tu više, kako bih rekla, empatičnije, više smo okrenute unutrašnjoj strani i to utiče na naše odluke, našu i moram to da kažem jer je važno kada upravljate poslom i zato napominjem da je to možda samo statistika, da žene ne zarađuju isto koliko i muškarci, a ne radi se samo o zarađivanju novca. Mi moramo da učinimo da se drugi osećaju dobro, mi mislimo na tuđe probleme. Mi smo tu i uvek nekako brinemo o nekome – i mislim da se to odnosi više na muškarce nego na žene. Ali moram da kažem da ovo nije generalizacija jer postoje i senzitivni muškarci koji se osećaju isto tako. Ali kao što sam rekla, u biznisu nismo sa stavom, u redu, hajde da zaradimo novac, i ja to tako objašnjavam. Jer u svim istraživanjima koje sam radila, muškarci koji vode istu vrstu firmi, identičnu vrstu firmi, zarađuju više nego žene. Ne mislim da je to zato što žene nisu sposobne, već ženama glavni cilj nije samo novac. I još jedna stvar koju uvek ističem je da muškarci stvaraju partnerstva, mreže, klub džentlmena i oni međusobno sarađuju. Dok žene nekako, nije dobro reći ali ponekad postoji osećaj ljubomore među njima. Ne, ne kažem među svim ženama ali ponekad postoji ljubomora među ženama koje vode firme. I nisu toliko povezane, ne razmenjuju poslove međusobno, ne stvaraju ta partnerstva. A to je nešto što definitivno moramo da uradimo. Lično, kad god mogu da dam posao nekoj ženi, pronađem je. Dakle, ako moram da biram – a ne kažem da ne biram kvalitet, ali ako imam dve slične firme, jednom upravlja žena a drugom muškarac, radije biram da koristim uslugu ili angažujem spoljne saradnike iz firme kojom upravlja žena. Samo iz razloga jer treba da podržimo jedna drugu i osnažimo jedna drugu. Sigurna sam, da ako to radimo malo po malo, jer to nije problem samo u našim zemljama, ovo je globalni problem. I kad god možemo, treba da podignemo glas ako obavljamo iste poslove u istim kompanijama. Recimo da imaš sva IT inženjera – ženu i muškarca – muškarac je uvek bolje plaćen od žene. A to nije u redu.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Pa, isto je i kod nas u Srbiji.
Rafaela Rica: Mislim da je isto tako na celom svetu.
Sanja Milosavljevic: To je interesantno! Slažem se. Ne znam da li smo stidljive, ili ljubomorne jedna na drugu ili ne razmišljamo u kategorijama upravljanja poslovanjem, ali slažem se da muškarci lakše sklapaju partnerstva, lakše se umrežavaju gde god da odu. Možda igraju fudbal uveče sa prijateljima, ili odlaze na kafe ili piće sa prijateljima, ali vrlo lako stvaraju te veze. Žene, nama treba više vremena. Mislim da nam stvarno treba više vremena da napravimo te veze, osnažimo jedna drugu ili podržimo jedna drugu.
Rafaela Rica: Ali treba da se složimo da smo napredovale, rekla bih. Makar ima više žena u biznisu. Laska mi i srećna sam kad vidim, kao ćlan žirija, sve više žena. Za mene su oni isti, ali nam je potrebna mlađa generacija, više nezavisnih ljudi, više preduzetnika, bilo da su muškarci ili žene, ali kada ima više žena to znači jedan pozitivan iskorak za celo društvo. Mislim, više nezavisnih žena znači ravnopreavnije društvo, ekonomsku nezavisnost, to donosi slobodu ženama i više rodne ravnopravnosti. Drago mi da to vidim u Albaniji, ali i u regionu Balkana. To vidim i na Kosovu, to sam videla i u Makedoniji. Kada sam bila u Srbiji srela sam se sa Ivanom i razgovarale smo na tu temu i približila mi je malo situaciju i rekla je da ima sve više žena u privatnom biznisu, koje napuštaju poslove i započinju nešto svoje – što je odlično.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Mali koraci. Mali, veliki koraci. Da li, izvini sad mi je palo na pamet… U Srbiji, žene mogu da dobiju zajam od banke, ali možda malo teže jer većina nema ništa nas voje ime, ne mogu da daju učešće.
Rafaela Rica: Kolateral, da potreban im je kolateral, hipoteka.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, kolateral. Kakva je situacija u Albaniji?
Rafaela Rica: Manje više je ista, i to je ovde veliki problem. Pristup finansijama je jedan od najvećih problema, moram da kažem. Mislim da vlada treba da uloži više napora ka bankama, makar za ove manje zajmove. Jer start-up ne traži mnogo novca. Prvo ne bi trebalo da budu sa visokim kamatama. U većini slučajeva su sa visokim kamatama i to je u potpunosti nepreihvatljivo jer vam daju neki novac a vrati im se duplo više. Druga stvar, trebalo bi da podržavaju biznise a ne da traže kolaterale. Prošla sam kroz to, i uvek kažem da je bilo izuzetno neprijatno za moje roditelje kada sam ih pitala da stave kuću pod hipoteku na tri godine. Sigurna sam da moji mama i tata nisu mirno spavali jer su mislili da ću da bankrotiram. Zamisli porodicu, a ti znaš koliko je za njih kupovina kuće važna stvar i samo tu jednu stvar imaju u celom svom životu i onda rizikuju da je izgube zbog avanture svog deteta. U ovom slučaju je baš šteta, jer prolaze kroz probleme za 5, 10 ili 20 hiljada evra. Potpuno je ludo da ne pomažu sa ovim ili da ga makar učine mogućim. U većini slučajeva i ne dođe do zajma, jer u tim godinama nemaju svi kolateral ili porodicu koja može da im pomogne ustupajući svoju kuću ili imanje. I to je jedna od najvećih stvari koje moraju da se menjaju. A mislim da se to neće desiti u bankarskom sektoru ukoliko vlada ne izvrši pritisak na njih. Postoje neki programi koji finansijski podržavaju neke satrt-upe. Ali da budem iskrena, u početku se baš nešto i nisam slagala sa tim. Znaš, kada započinješ biznis treba da požuriš da uradiš više stvari, moraš da pronađeš klijente, da postaviš biznis, da naučiš ceo proces rada a kada vidiš preduzetnike da pristupaju tim projektima da bi dobili 3 ili 5 hiljada evra na koje potroše za šest meseci rada. Uvek volim da kažem da mi ubijamo duh preduzetništva. Jer oni čekaju taj novac i gube fokus kako bi zaradili novac koji im je potreban. I u mnogo slučajeva sam govorila, koliko vremena ste potrošili čekajući taj novac, to vreme ste mogli da utrošite u pronalaženju klijenata. Mogli ste da zaradite dva ili tri puta više. Lično, ne zagovaram da treba besplatno da daju novac preduzetnicima, ali umesto da im pomognu da dobiju zajam, i da preduzetnici postanu odgovorni za vraćanje tog novca i ne troše mnogo vremena na čekanje a u međuvremenu ne rade. Onda izgube širu sliku, i onda postanu umorni a u većini slučajeva ne dobiju novac. Izgube vreme i odlutaju od onoga što rade. Mislim da fokus treba da bude na uspehu i da treba da se fokusiraju na to da nađu izvor finansiranja. To može da se uradi uzimanjem zajma po niskim kamatnim stopama, bez kolaterala i mislim da bi to moglo da bude rešenje.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, znam. Jer, dok juriš ta sredstva, nažalost, gubiš vreme za pronalaženje klijenata ili načina da zaradiš novac koji će održati tvoju firmu. Znam, ovde je slično. Došle smo do kraja razgovora i volim da pitam gošće da pošalju neku poruku ljudima na celom svetu. Pa, šta bi bila tvoja poruka, ili damama koje planiraju da uđu u biznis?
Rafaela Rica: Prvo, rekla bih ako me pitaju da li bih se vratila i uradila to što sam uradila, rekla bih da, uvek da – uvek bih pokrenula svoj biznis. Ako je zadovoljstvo u radu veliko, onda je mnogo veće u poređenju sa svim brigama i svim onim što prolazite – sloboda i zadovoljstvo su veliki. I kao što sam rekla, nema veze sa količinom novca koju zarađujete. Ima veze sa pronalaženjem svrhe života pomažući drugim ljudima. Ako postanete uzor, da pokažete svetu da možete, tako ćete biti finansijski nezavisni, menjajući svet. Mi smo mikro kosmos, ali ako svi to radimo, to znači da će svet postati mnogo bolje mesto. I rekla bih im – započnite biznis, budite korak ispred i budite, kako bih rekla, živimo u agilnom vremenu. Živimo u svetu koji se ubrzano menja i sve se menja velikom brzinom. Budite u toku, vidite šta dolazi, vidite gde ste vi – koja bi to profesija ili posao mogla da vas služi u narednih deset godina. A to je sada – i to znate, naš svet je sažet u paroli “prilagodi se i promeni”, prilagođavajte se i menjajte se na dbevnom nivou i to nema veze sa poslom već sa vama samima. A to su – i poslednja ali ne manje važna stvar je da budete bezbedni, jer je to najvažniji deo našeg života. I to važi i za ovu situaciju, jer smo možda izgubili prijatelje i to ljude koje smo znali koji su mladi i vidimo da živimo u nesigurna vremena i to nema smisla, ako nismo zdravi. Uvek pokušavam da inspirišem ljude da žive zdravim načinom života, da održavaju imuni sistem, da rade sa energijama, da se bave spirituačnošću, jogom. Jer na kraju, sve materijalno ode. U jednom danu izgubite posao – videli smo kako se to desilo. I sve što nam ostane i dom u kojem živimo do kraja naših života, smo mi. Zato je važno da brinemo o sebi. I to stvarno mislim, jer nikada – čak i kada obedujemo, mi ne vidimo hranu kao – samo razmišljajte o tome što jedete i na koji način to utiče na vaš digestivni trakt. To isto važi i za naše misli. Samo mislite o vašim mislima. Jer ako imate negativne misli, te negativne misli će vas povući na dole i to može da se pretvori u lavinu. Dakle, mislite pozitivno. Pratim dosta i slušam duhovne vođe. Sa razlogom, svi poznati i uspešni ljudi na svetu, jednom kada postanu uspešni, pokušavaju da pronađu i upoznaju sebe. Zato uvek ostavite taj prozor otvorenim da bolje upoznate sebe, i onda, ako verujete u boga i univerzum, znaćete da uvek postoji manifestacija toga. To mi je dosta puta pomoglo u životu, promenilo mi je život. Kako sam počela promenu – da uklanjam negativne ljude iz života, da se fokusiram na pozitivno, da nije sve u novcu i poslu. U redu, to postoji, treba da budemo odgovorni, ali ne samo prema poslu ili novcu. I da uživaju u životu, što je moguće više uživaju, da se smeju što više – potrebna nam je pozitivnost. I kao što sam rekla, na tom duhovnom putovanju, koje je za mene bilo iskustvo koje menja život, to je nešto na šta sve podstičem da urade, jer tada vidimo suštinu, i da nam ne ostaje ništa od ovog sveta, ono što ostaje su naša dela, na koliko života smo uticali, koliko dobro smo proživeli ovaj život. I na kraju, niko neće poneti ništa sa ovog sveta. Da, zdravlje je vrlo važno ali i mentalno i fizičko. A sada samo, bližimo se Božiću i moramo da postanemo…
Sanja Milosavljevic: Znam, znam. Hvala ti Rafaela, zaista cenim vreme koje si posvetila ovom inetrvjuu. Hvala ti za sve što si rekla, i na savetima koje si podelila. Naročito, jer imaš široko iskustvo, nije nešto što si samo pročitala u knjizi, već je to nešto što imaš u sopstvenom iskustvu. Hvala ti, zaista sam uživala u našem razgovoru.
Rafaela Rica: Hvala ti mnogo. Bilo je zadovoljstvo i želim ti srećan božić i mnogo bolju 2021. godinu.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Pa, 2021. godina mora biti bolja od ove. Mislim, ne može biti gora od ove, mora da bude bolja. Dragi ljudi, slušali ste Rafaelu Ricu. Ona dolazi iz Albanije i iskreno senadam da ste uživali isto koliko i ja u razgovoru. I ako želite, možete da nas pronađete na društvenim mrežama kao što su Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn a ako želite možete da se pretplatite na naš YouTube kanal. I kao što je Rafaela rekla, budite dobro i zdravo i vidimo se za nedelju dana.