Sanja Milosavljevic: Hi, hello, good day. My name is Sanja Milosavljevic, and I’m going to be your host for today. This is an entrepreneur podcast and we are talking about how COVID changed our lives and how COVID influenced small business or medium-sized business owners in the world. Today, my guest is going to be a friend of mine. Her name is Eszter and she comes from Hungary – she lives in Budapest. And she’s going to share with us her story about her business and life in Budapest or in Hungary these days. So, hi Eszter, how are you?

Eszter Harsányi: Fine, thank you! Everything is just cool – it’s summer!

Sanja Milosavljevic: It’s summer, yes. So, can you tell us something about yourself? We’ve known each other for more than a year now, we met in the States in 2019. But can you tell us something about yourself, what do you do, how does your ordinary day look like and something about your educational background and something like that? 

Eszter Harsányi: Okay. So, originally I am a sociologist, but I’ve never worked as a sociologist. My carrier has began in the, like administration and then I used to work for a big multinational company, but after the birth of my second son, he was born with epilepsy, I needed to have a change in my career. So I started to do my own business and I am the owner of a small social enterprise which is focusing on teaching everyone how to play together with those kids who have got problems – behavioral problems, or even disabilities, or social problems, we are teaching everyone how to play together. I have two kids, the older one is 12, he’s a typical boy. He’s enjoying his summer holiday with his grandmother right now. And the smaller one, as I mentioned, he was born with epilepsy. He has gotten brain surgery and he is okay. He is 10 years old and he’s at home with us and with my husband. I think he’s finished his summer holiday for this year and he’s waiting for his school begins. And, the summer holiday unfortunately ended also for us because on Sunday we came back from Bolotov, which is a huge lake in Hungary, the Hungarian ocean. We came home from Bolotov, and this was the last moment of our summer. Since Monday I am working again. Yeah, that’s it. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, when you say that your life changed when your son was born with epilepsy, did COVID change you? I mean, having a boy with epilepsy isn’t maybe that huge as something like a breakout of the virus. So, how did you adapt to this change? Is it that terrible thing for you, or is change something that is normal for you?

Eszter Harsányi: Well, the most difficult thing was the homeschooling. The schools were locked-down in the middle of March, so we needed to home-schooling both of them, actually, for more than two months. And with the older one it was not a problem because he was reading, he was doing his homework, he was doing his stuff, his thing. I actually I hadn’t seen him for one day because he was in his room. But with the smaller one it was really, really difficult. I mean, we can say lucky considering, compared with to other, Hungarian schools, because we had online learning. I mean, I am really happy that our school, that my kids are learning they prepared, I mean they immediately prepared the online guidelines and they started to use Zoom, even those teachers before who wouldn’t hear about internet and using the internet as a teaching tool, they immediately- they were so flexible, they started to use Zoom every day as normal daily.  So I consider myself lucky. But still, we needed to sit with the younger one and we needed to sit with him all day to tell him what to do and how to do, so it was very frustrating. Even to see them that they are frustrated because they didn’t have any companion, just us. I mean, they didn’t meet with anyone, they were at home. My youngest one started having- it was suffering him psychology- psychologically. Because I saw that he started to thinking I don’t know enough English- his eyes were starting to shaking. Which is a kind of a symbol, it’s a signal of not being well. Because he was isolated. And if you’re talking about differently-abled kids, or those kids who are not typical, who are atypical – it doesn’t matter what is the reason of their atypical behavior, because of their social problem or because of their disability or whatever. But this isolation was even harder for them, compared to those who have got no problem. I still, my older one has a problem not to see anyone, but I think he was able to cope with the situation much better than his brother who is, okay, is younger, but still for him it was very, very difficult. This isolation. And I think I can tell those who have got the same kids as I have that seeing my kids, this was the hardest thing for me. For 24 hours I realized – each 24 hours I had to see my son was different than other. I mean, you know, in normal weekdays he’s in school, I pick up at 4 o’clock and I spend time with him. I know that he’s different than the other one, but I mean it was just punching into you face for 24 hours that he’s different from others because I needed to sit down with him and teaching him and so on.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, aren’t- there’s a small controversy here in Serbia regarding the start of the school year which is in, I don’t know, two weeks from now. So, are the kids from Hungary, are they returning to school at the begin-

Eszter Harsányi: Yes.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, no more home-schooling, no more online-teaching?

Eszter Harsányi: Right. We are hearing rumors that, maybe from the middle of September or from the middle of October the school will be locked-down again and that there would be online solution. But now we have the letters from the school master, we are preparing- even they are going to do some camping, which was delayed because of the COVID. But now they are preparing for the school years as fast as we can. I mean, we are scared that we need to home-school them again, which will be terrible and even with the backpedal it would be easier in reverse than during the spring time because at least we spend hours outside, but if it’s internet it will be difficult. But now everyone is behaving as nothing bad stuff has ever happen. We are going back to schools, the kids are going back to schools. There are some rules from the Ministry which the schools need to follow, but it’s- the rules are, it’s impossible to follow the rules. I mean, the rules was written from somebody who doesn’t- who’ve never been in a Hungarian school. I mean, decisions from the Ministry it looks like they’ve never seen a school from the inside. So if I reading the Facebook from parents group, even the teachers group, everyone’s upset. Because these are just- it’s just- we cannot, they cannot follow the rules, that’s for sure. So, I don’t know what is going to happen actually. But yes, in two-weeks time- no, one week, actually the school will be- one and a half week, the school will begin.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, are you comfortable with sending your boys to school?

Eszter Harsányi: You see, I feel like this is like we are Don Quixote who is fighting with the- the-

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, I know – windmills, I know.

Eszter Harsányi: You can’t protect. I mean, I am using the public transport, I am meeting with people. You can’t avoid it. If it has to happen, it has to happen. I don’t want to be locked-down in my own home, I want to meet with my friends, my family… there is a risk, I know. But that’s for sure that I don’t want homeschooling my kids anymore. Because that is not a good solution. I mean, if I have to I will, but I don’t want to.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So did you have a complete lockdown? Total lockdown? Like in Serbia during the month of May we were locked down for four days in a row and every weekend and every day from 5 or 6 o’clock in the evening. How was in Budapest, or in Hungary?

Eszter Harsányi: Well officially it was a lockdown, but practically? It wasn’t a lockdown.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Really?

Eszter Harsányi: Yeah, no. As soon as the weather started to be very good, people were outside and no one checked whether you go. Or, at least officially it was said you can leave your home if you go to work, but no one ever asked what are you doing at the streets. I mean I do remember that in May when weather was very good, we went to have a walk with my friends and it was full of people, everyone was outside. And no one checked, actually. Nights, no one is checking if you are wearing a mask, no one is checking it. So it’s officially there was a lockdown, officially there are rules, but no one is taking them.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So do you wear a mask? What are the precaution measures? Like in Serbia, we are wearing masks, we wash our hands often, more often…

Eszter Harsányi: That’s what I do.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Social distancing, but…is it something different in Hungary?

Eszter Harsányi: No, I am not practising social distancing, but we do wash hands, wear mask…not everybody obey in Budapest. I don’t know what’s better, I’m decide, but in Budapest not everyone is obeying. Mask especially, in public transport. When I go shopping, most of the people are wearing mask, that’s for sure. Because everyone can be punished – employees working in the shop and the customers who are going to the shop they can be punished. I mean I never heard anyone who was punished, but probably that’s why people are wearing masks. But in public transport less and less people are wearing masks. So actually they, the new mayor of Budapest, they started to have new rules regarding wearing masks in the public transport because he realized that you know, they are not following the rules. Because it was written in March and April or whenever.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well I think that people are basically tired because we spent too much time, too long time in quarantines, or following the rules, so I think people are just a bit tired of not seeing any results.

Eszter Harsányi: Yeah.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, can you tell us something about women in business in Hungary? I’ve read a research Mastercard did I think three or four years ago and it says that only- less than 30% of small-scale businesses are ran or led by women. Did anything change in the meantime?

Eszter Harsányi: I don’t know the precise numbers, maybe they’re higher, but the situation is not that better. I mean, we are living in a- I wouldn’t say it’s a patriarchal society, but still there is a gender bias and there is huge difference between woman and man. Even in- and this is coming from the communication from the government-

Sanja Milosavljevic: Really? In what terms? In what terms? When you say there is a huge difference between women and men – in what terms?

Eszter Harsányi: If you hear from the government that the woman place is in the kitchen, then you cannot expect anything from the workplaces. It is often – if you go to a job interview, they are asking you when are you going to have a baby. Which is not okay, I mean, in the 21st century it is not okay to ask this question. But this is still the practise – not everywhere, but this is still okay, because if this kind of communication is coming from the government, you can’t expect from the workplaces not to ask the same question or not to behave as the same. And there is still we have, you know, the glass ceiling. Women that earn less money than men. If you see the Hungarian government, there is no- any women in the Hungarian Ministry, in the Hungarian Government, only men. So it’s, you know, this is telling something how this country is thinking about women.

Sanja Milosavljevic: But are there any women in decision-making positions? They don’t have to be in the government, but do you have-

Eszter Harsányi: Yes.

Sanja Milosavljevic: You have women on some higher, top-level management?

Eszter Harsányi: There are some CEO’s for some big multinational companies, even I know some small-scaling companies that have women-owned, women-

Sanja Milosavljevic: Women are-

Eszter Harsányi: Yes. Yes. This is true. But so, maybe the numbers are higher than four years ago, but I wouldn’t say that the situation is so good. So we should- there is place for improvement regarding women enterprisers or women entrepreneurships. And I am talking to men coaches who have coaching women and they always say that- I mean, I hear the fear why a woman is not able to have- to run her own enterprise. It’s not okay to be the breadwinner in the Hungarian society. And maybe this is a stigmatization, I can say that because, you know, not every Hungarian family is thinking in the same way. But I mean, I heard from many women that it’s not okay to be the breadwinner for the family. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know. The funny thing is – the title of that research I read is actually women in business and balancing life and career with the emphasis on how they can manage having their families and babies or whatever and running their own businesses. So maybe that’s why…it’s similar here, we also have a smaller percent of women running or leading their businesses. Where do you think- you said there is a place for improvement? Where do you see improvement? What can we do as a society as a society, or what can we do as women? 

Eszter Harsányi: [speaking in Hungarian to someone outside the call] Sorry. Could you repeat the question, sorry. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Is everything okay?

Eszter Harsányi: Yeah.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Okay. So, you said there is a place for improvement. Where do you see improvement? What can be improved?

Eszter Harsányi: For example- and I’m not talking about the small-scale businesses, but for example for the multinational company level, like there is no work-life balance, there is no flexible work, there is no- okay, now there’s distance working probably change because of the COVID. But before that it was unimaginable that someone can work from home. Or, if you are working in four hours in flexible job or in, atypical working hours, then your salary is so small that is not a good business anymore to work in four hours, or six hours or eight hours. For example that’s the reason I am not able to go back to work for a multinational company because there is no cooldown. I mean, I cannot go and pick up my kids because you know, the working hours are 9-5. If I want to earn decent money. That’s the biggest problem that there is no atypical working places. There were so many initiatives to change this, but actually nothing has happened. Because I don’t know, multinational companies are not everyone- I know it’s again stigma- but most of them are not trusting to their own people. And the woman is the one who has to manage to pick up the kids and the woman- and it’s okay if the woman is not earning the same money for a half-time job as a man. So it’s difficult. And in small enterprises, I think it has to change how do we think about when a woman is the breadwinner. Because I think this is the biggest obstacle if you’re talking about running a small business. And the other one is that it is still so typical that the woman the one who has got double shift. This means that I am the one who is picking up the kids and I am not the only one who is picking up the kids after school, after kindergarten, after nursery school. Men are always working or doing their business – okay, not everybody. But this is still typical. And it’s, you know, very difficult to be an entrepreneur when you have to finish at four o’clock and run to pick him up, pick her up and so on and so forth. This is again another big obstacle to raise these numbers. Maybe those- I was reading articles that those who doesn’t have small kids, they are more flexible in order to have their own enterprises. So maybe this segment is going to go – I mean the older one, 50+ years or something like that. When you don’t have small kids, it is a bit easier. Because that’s true that to paying a nanny is very expensive, so then you are working just to paying the nanny. The school are closing at 4 o’clock, the kindergarten closing at I don’t know what time. So it’s not easy to manage if you have kids and you want to be a successful entrepreneur.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Entrepreneur…I know. Can you tell us something about…this spring? Where were you? Do you remember where were you when you heard about the COVID? And what was the attitude of your media towards this new mysterious virus? Did you have that opposite attitude or opposite signals from the media how to behave, what to do, what is going to happen?

Eszter Harsányi: It’s a very tricky question…I’ve been- it was not COVID yet, but my kids were not allowed to go to school because we came home from Greece. It was the beginning of March and the schoolmaster said that they cannot go to school for two years. So you know I was thinking okay, I’m going to kill myself. Because this is- this scare that everybody in the school, not even friends and they are at home. And then, I was- I heard rumors from municipalities that they will go in to lockdown schools, but nothing has happened. And how the Hungarian government is working, the pressure was so big, the pressure was so high that they needed to lockdown schools. So that happened in the middle of March, or something like that, because of the huge pressure they needed to lockdown schools. And then they started to make interventions – wearing masks, limitating the opening hours of the shops, it’s- you know, after every day something has changed. And regarding the media there is I think only one or two press we are reading because that’s what we do believe and it’s just in the bracket that we don’t believe the government what the government is saying. So whatever the government is saying – I don’t believe it. And then close by my friends who have the same belief that I have, we don’t believe in the Hungarian government. Whatever they say about the virus, whatever they say about the numbers, whatever they say about how to protect ourselves, we don’t believe them. So that’s not so easy. And that’s why we were getting information from the foreign press because we thought that they were more reliable and that we could trust in them. And there are two or three sources where we can get information – Hungarian sources. And that was okay, that was close five calls on how to for and what to do. And another funny thing is that I have friends in the space – you know, where situation is worse – and they had time to read many, many articles, many many researches and we had so many things with my friends every Saturday when we get new information about how to protect yourself, what is the best mask to wear FBB2 or FFP3, how bad can you buy it and so on. We started to manage and maybe every other communities were the same, but we started to distribute the information. Who can what, when can you have what, how do you manage it and so on. So it’s not the government who helped us, but well, we helped ourselves to figure out what to believe in, how to believe in, how to be prepared for the COVID. And this was funny that my friends started to- no, actually not my friend but we read it and we heard that people arre starting to buy food. You know it was primal – we started to buy food as well. I mean we ordered- we still have so many rices and cans. I don’t know what we’re gonna do with that, but we have it. Because this was the hysterics then, when everyone started to buy foods and we were afraid there won’t be food anymore in the shops. So it was, yeah – this is how I remember. We ordered foods and toilet paper and so on.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yeah, it was the same. Yeah, it was funny because it was exactly the same in Serbia. People went to supermarkets to buy toilet paper and some non-perishable goods like cans of fish or flour or rice or whatever, so it’s the same. But I think it’s based on fear – when you fear for yourself and your life, then you go and just hunt for food. And if you have an extra food you can always donate to, I don’t know, homeless people or something. That’s one thing you can do. Okay, thank you. Can you tell us something about the social entrepreneurship? It’s very interesting for us in Serbia. It’s something that’s starting to develop here and I know that you run your company for some years now. Can you tell us something, what is social- what does the word social entrepreneurship means for you, how you handle things, do you have any kind of regulatory obstacles. Can you just start your business and have employees that are with disabilities or to some vulnerable group of people to work with. How’s the situation in Hungary and how’s the situation with your company?

Eszter Harsányi: Okay. So legally in Hungary, the social entrepreneurship as such does not exist. We have ltd. which is not social entrepreneurship, we have the NGO sector which is again, can be social entrepreneurship something, but it’s not that what I’m doing. And we have the- we have some other form. Which has to do something with NGO, but those some extra. But again, that’s not an IBD that’s not a social entrepreneurship. We have association now that they’ve started to change the regulation. But at least there should be some ltd. which is a form of social entrepreneurship. I mean in England I know that there are several types of social entrepreneurship, but in Hungary legally that just does not exist. And even when the government is thinking about social entrepreneurship where as you said where having disabled people employer and employee the mention, this is the only thing the Hungarian government is thinking about. So when you make the connection between social entrepreneurship, this means that you are employing people with disability. This is how the Hungarian government is thinking which is very sad. Because it’s much more, it’s much bigger and so on. So, many- I know many small enterprisers who consider themselves social enterprises and it’s so strange that I know many NGO who doesn’t consider themselves as a social enterprise. So I think it’s the- I think they, I don’t know, they are not prepared or they did not heard about the word or- that I have my own opinion about the Hungarian government sector, but I never heard any NGO that- or just very few who says that okay I am a social entrepreneur. And if you check the- and everyone is using a different definition of social entrepreneurship. But like Ashoka, the member of Ashoka, many of them is coming from the NGO sector. This is what they call social entrepreneurship. But in Hungary it’s- in baby steps, yeah? I have to say, yeah, something is happening, but in baby steps.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So was it hard for you? Sorry, but was it hard for you at the beginning to try to find your spot, or try to promote your company or try to get to some funds? What was the situation then? 

Eszter Harsányi: Is it still difficult, because when I’m saying that I’m a social entrepreneur no one understands. So you have ‘I mean from an NGO sector? No, no, no thank you. I am not a civil organisation’. No, I am living from the market. So it’s very difficult for them to understand- many of them to understand what does this mean. There is a discussion about it, something is happening, but still I- all the time I need to explain what is the difference between an NGO and my business. That I am living from the market, not just because I am applying for funds of course because from the market I am unable to win. But still it is still- we need to educate people about what is the difference between an NGO and between a social entrepreneur. And even the other thing is, I really need to draw many, many places that impact is starting to- we’re starting to talk about impact. That whatever we do we are measuring it, we are talking about it and even NGO specific organisations have started to use the word impact. I don’t know how do they measure or what do they do with this impact thing, but at least they started to use the word impact, which is something. And even from multinational companies, they started to use the word impact that- they just not to donate money, but they want to measure how it impacted those who need money. But it’s very few people that understand what is impact, what is social entrepreneurship and especially that I have an RTD and not an NGO, so it’s very difficult to explain. But I am not giving up because we need to educate people, so we need to explain to them what is the difference between the two things that yes I am living from the market and yes I am doing for- which is, which has impacted the society on the long run. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Can you tell us something more about your business. I know what you do, I know what your product is, but can you tell us something more about that?

Eszter Harsányi: Okay, so as I told you at the beginning we are- the focus- our mission is to teach everyone how to play together. It means that we are designing equipment that everybody regardless of their ability or ages can play together. This means that if you go anywhere, even in Serbia, even in anywhere else in Europe, if you go out to playground, there is no way, there is no physical challenge kids can- able to play together with their disabled peers because there is no equipment allowing them to play together. So this is one focus that we are focusing on playground, and we are focusing on playground to change the attitude of the decision maker that instead of having this absolutely not unique playground equipment, but to challenge them to choose equipment where they can really play together that they can feel what does it mean playing together, that they can draw playing and so on. This is one part of the business. The other part is that we are teaching nursery school teachers, preschool teachers, elementary school teachers how they can involve kids with behavioral difficulties, with disabilities into the fun. Because although we are talking about inclusion, we are talking about integration, but if you are checking if you are seeing it in a closer perspective, it is not inclusion. This is not in relation what is happening in Hungary. So this is what we are teaching – what does it mean real inclusion. How you have to be a teacher, behave a little bit different in order to really support these kids who have behavioral issues, who need, you know, who need to talk a bit slower because it’s not gonna understand what you are saying. So we are delivering training where we really tell them or teach them practical ideas how they can involve these kids. And now we are starting to focus on kids with trauma, those who are coming from socially disadvantaged communities. This is what we call- they have trauma because they are hungry, they are coming from poverty. And started to deliver development packages for these kids that we are teaching the local helpers, the local educators how they can develop these kids in order to be prepared for school, especially after COVID. So, in summary we are dealing with kids who have a trauma, who has got behavioral issues or who are disabled and we teach the adults and them. How they can involve them into the everyday activity, including play, including learning, everything.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Nice, good job, good work. Do you- can you get funds from the bank? Can you get a loan from the bank if you are a social enterprise?

Eszter Harsányi: Esteban has got social banking something, but the numbers what I- once I tried to apply for a loan, but my numbers were not sexy enough. So I didn’t receive the social- because at the end of the day they are just bankers, you know? So at the end of the day I didn’t receive the loan. So now we are really getting the money from the market because we are selling this training for new communities, for kindergartens and for elementary schools and then also we are applying for funds because we know in the gypsy communities they are not able to pay for these developmental packages. So in this case we are applying for funds. We are working together with a number of foundations, we work with society foundations and we are looking for other partners with whom we can work together. And in the long run we would like to open- to scale up in the west Balkan because there the situation is even worse than in Hungary. And we really want to have there the teachers to show them how they can start to- start the intervention of childhood education, or early childhood development.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So I hope this podcast will maybe help, because I know that some people from our local community is going to listen to this, so I hope that someone who can make a decision is going to hear your call. Okay, thank you, thank you. It’s amazing. I remember when you told us, when we met last year, when you told us what do you do and what your company was, I was even not sure what a social enterprise is. Now I know much more about it, I read something about it and I think it’s kind of- I don’t want to say your future, but it’s a good business model. Because you’re actually making a pact between good thing – contributing to society – and earning some decent money. 

Eszter Harsányi: Yeah. I think actually that this is the future. Because COVID won’t be the same, the decision making isn’t just going to change – those who are sitting in a bunch of money that this is not going to work like this. That we’re building focus for those who have nothing. I mean now that we are working with underserved communities it is really depressing how they live their everyday life. I mean, I knew this because I studied sociology and I was working with gypsy kids, but now that I’m a mother and have two kids, I’m really observing this with completely different eyes. So I think that social entrepreneurship is the future. We need to change.

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, I know. We really need to change. Maybe this COVID situation is something that will push us towards a change. And I would like to ask you one more thing before we say goodbye because it’s almost the end of our conversation. How did your government help businesses to survive this lockdown period. Because in Serbia things stopped for almost two months and we all had problems with cash flow, with things like you have to pay for rental, you have to pay your employees, especially if you have a hard time finding a good employee, you want to keep that person in your company as a part of the team. So we got some incentives from the government. What was the situation in Hungary? Did you get any help.

Eszter Harsányi: No.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Do you have any information- no?

Eszter Harsányi: No. But, but I read in the newspaper and I don’t know what happened that they wanted to have some help, but it was good only for the big multinational companies which I don’t understand because they don’t have enough money. I mean, if they don’t have savings that means something is not going okay within that company. But for us? In my case? Nothing has happened. And my husband has got business in Greece as well, he has got in LPB and he received funds from the Greece government but he hasn’t from the Hungarian government, although he has got a legitimate business in Hungary as well. And me, myself, I received nothing. And I know that non-profit sector they didn’t receive anything and I’m quite sure that small enterprises many of them did not survive because they didn’t receive any help. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: That is something very similar to the situation in Serbia. We got some incentives, we got some- they postponed the taxes we have to pay, but still that’s not the solution to a problem, it’s just postponing the problem for some future time. 

Eszter Harsányi: Yeah, postponing…that is true, yeah…

Sanja Milosavljevic: Like it’s going to happen to somebody else, it’s not going to happen to me or you. Okay, so for the end, can you- what will be your message? What will you say to people in Serbia and people all around the world? 

Eszter Harsányi: Regarding COVID?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Regarding COVID, regarding how your life changed and regarding the future of what is the new business model, what is the new model that is sustainable.

Eszter Harsányi: Actually this is what I learned during COVID and maybe this is my message that COVID forced me to change some part of my previous business model. Because I know that everything is now online, but I was hesitating to use some online solutions because this is not the business we are doing, it’s an intimate thing to talk about difficulties. But now we are forced to do some online thing. So I can say that I am grateful for COVID that I was forced to really look for solutions for online, which is giving opportunities to scale-up, which is giving opportunities to have a bigger impact. And my message is that okay COVID is not a good thing, but at least we have a roof, we have food, we have everything, but still we need to look for positive thing if we can find it. I mean I found it this time, this is the one thing I found it. And maybe that is the message that okay, it’s bad, it’s really bad but still we need to focus on how we can survive and what are the small elements we can see that is positive. I mean, I was really happy that I didn’t have to wake up very early. This was another advantage of COVID that I was able to sleep longer because we didn’t have to catch the school bus. So that’s two advantages I find – online solutions and that I didn’t have to wake up early. So maybe that can be the message that you can sleep longer and COVID is happening and when you get up later you go to work.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Okay, thank you Eszter so much, thank you for your time. Thank you for accepting to participate in this project of ours. So-

Eszter Harsányi: Thank you for inviting me!

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, no – you’re really welcome. Because I know you have so many things to say and you have so many things to share with the world and the people especially here in Serbia. Because we are basically a region, we are not that far away. So thank you once again and hope to- we’re definitely going to hear each other after we’re finished with the shooting.

Eszter Harsányi: Okay!

Sanja Milosavljevic: Dear people of the world, this was Eszter and she’s from Budapest, Hungary. She shared her story with us, and if you- thank you for your time, thank you for listening, thank you for staying with us. And if you want you can follow us on social media like Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, LinkedIn and you can follow, share with your friends and families and subscribe for our YouTube channel. So stay in good health and see you in a week.