Sanja Milosavljevic: Hello, my name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I’m going to be your host today. Today, my guest is Anežka Svobodová and she comes from Czech Republic. She’s a very enthusiastic young lady, very strong, very powerful and she’s a- how should I say, curious person with different interests and she’s very successful in all those different interests she has. So, Anežka hi, hello, how are you?

Anežka Svobodová: Hi, thanks for the introduction, I’m doing good. While I don’t know if I’m as successful as you describe, I’m certainly enthusiastic about stuff, but I’m not sure about the extent of the success yet.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, for me it is- because we know each other for some time and we spent even some time together on a small trip last year. So, we got to know each other a little better and when I say that you are successful, I really mean that. Because I know your past endeavors, I know the things you worked on in the past so I can strongly say that you are successful. So, can you tell us something about yourself? Some small introduction – what is your educational background, what are your interests, what are your- some of your future plans and what is your main focus in this moment?

Anežka Svobodová: Right, okay. So, as it was already said, I’m quite multi-interested in many things. I studied first economics and politics, then I studied local economic development and that was something I wanted to work on in the future. But, after I finished studying I got into startup which was doing sustainable protein meat from insects. I stayed there for years, I was in charge of developing products. We made lots of new, unprecedented snacks from insects like protein bars, protein crackers, even pasta, protein shakes – lots of different items. Then, I considered moving ahead, changing my career a bit and now I finally made a step after a long time of decision and I decided to do two things. One of them is doing my own startup, I’m starting a very new thing with my friends. And the other thing is that I decided to join a large corporation because I still feel that I lack a lot of skills in different areas and I still feel that the big corporations know how to do stuff. That was one of my biggest fears in startup that I’m actually missing on something. So now I’m trying to do both things – learn how to do it well and also do something of my own. So that’s for me – and also in terms of hobbies and stuff, I like nature and reading, summer camps with kids and reading and just being curious.

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know. Well, when we met and we met last year in September in Warsaw in summer school for new product development. I was so happy to meet you. I was so delighted to hear that something that was my idea and people here in Serbia looked at me like I’m a crazy person when I tell them we can make products with alternative sources of protein. And then I met you and you said you are working for a startup and that you’re using cricket flour for snacks and pasta. And I even tried the snacks and they are perfect. So, how is it to develop a new product that contains something, an ingredient, that is totally new in the market? Like, what were your problems? Did you have problems with, I don’t know, the State, the regulations, the people who are basically consumers of your goods?

Anežka Svobodová: Hm, I would say there was turbulence in all those areas you described. For the State problems, it was legal in the EU to work with insects, but each country had its own legislation. So, we were working from the Czech Republic, but officially we were based in UK because when the company started back in 2016, I think UK was one of the few countries where you could actually work and produce- work with insects and then sell the goods. And still even today there’s different legislation in different countries. So I think in Austria you can only sell whole insects – like whole grasshopper or cricket, but you cannot sell products made from insect components or cricket flour. And then in France there’s also a different legislation. So, it was a big problem and we as a startup have since actually made a lot of progress on this in Czech Republic because we pushed on the Ministry of Agriculture and we actually made them approve of some clause which made it perfectly legal to work with insect flour in the Czech flour. Before that it was semi-legal- it wasn’t illegal, but it was quite unclear if you could do it or not and which authorities should approve of it. But then we really worked with them, we showed them it could be safe, it could work well and after that they approved it so now it’s perfectly legal. And then you also mentioned customers, of course. So that was the biggest problem I would say. Because for many people even today in 2020, if they hear ‘insect snacks’ it’s like ‘ugh, what is it?’ and they don’t want to try. So we had to convince them. And my experience was that you have to make them try the first time because they are afraid and then you break the barrier. And the second time they remember it was something tasty, it was a good snack and then they continue eating it. So that was the customer. Then, the biggest problem maybe was the buyer in the shop problem. So, like the buyers of supermarkets or the people who actually purchase goods for retail chains. That was a big issue. Because imagine there’s this one person who decides if your bars or your other goods will be sold in the whole chain. So this person is practically making the decision for thousands of individual people who would buy it later. So you have to convince this one person that it’s a good product so it can get to the people. If you don’t convince them, then maybe you won’t get into a certain chain and maybe you will not be able to offer it to thousands of people. That was a huge challenge. Then also in the beginning especially there was a huge challenge in working with suppliers and producers. Because we never had a factory of our own since it’s a company that’s a marketing and sales company that owns the ideas and the recipes but it has some other producers which do it for them. And in the beginning there were very few factories that were willing to work with cricket flour. The first reason was because it was an allergen – it was the same as crustacean, so they were afraid of the allergen and the second thing is that they generally didn’t trust this thing and they didn’t want to get involved with it. So, there was a lot of convincing and it’s why maybe the first producers were maybe not of the best quality and that was one of my biggest tasks in the company – to change the producers for the version two, let’s say. To improve them, find new ones and it was getting better as the company was more known, and as the whole trend was more known in the world because more companies of bigger scale were willing to cooperate with us. So, that was one challenge, then of course there was the challenge of product development. Because in the company there was no one who would have experience with it. So, at the beginning it was the two founders that worked on it together with a professional chef who had some experience working with insects. But mostly like frying grasshoppers – again, not this insect powder thing. And then I got in charge of the product development. But as I said I studied economics and politics and then economic development, I had no idea how this is done. So it was like trial and error and common logic and just like trying to find ways. Then I went to this summer school for product development – where we met – which was organized by the European Institute of Technology and that was actually quite helpful and this organization is trying to do lots of initiatives and lots of activities to support people who are working in agro-food sector in Europe. And many of these activities were free and also helpful, so that gave me some direction. But still it was mostly like trying what works, what doesn’t. And I tried to contact lots of different cooperators, lots of different suppliers and ask them ‘how would you go about developing this product’ because sometimes they had more technical info than I had. And a big part of this-

Sanja Milosavljevic: Sorry, sorry, can I stop you? Were they willing to share those kind of information with you? Because it’s kind of a problematic area. Because you’re sharing some insights that are very important for a company. Were they willing to share it with you?

Anežka Svobodová: I would say they were, in those instances where they knew what to do. But sometimes they had no clue either. So they weren’t’ quite sure what to do. So a big part of that was doing customer research and asking the customers ‘what do you want from this product?’, then they told us ‘oh we want a cracker – it should be crispy, it should be quite thin, it should cost less than 2eur, it should have this and this’. Then we made some sense of it and we went to the producer and said how we want this and this, and sometimes they would say ‘oh but we don’t know how to put the cricket powder in it’. And then we would help them because we knew the magic about cricket powder and they knew the magic about making crackers or making bars or making something. So it was big compromises like putting those two pieces of knowledge together. And in some instances it still didn’t work out. So, let’s say we are trying to make some like yogurt or smoothie or wet product that should be stored in fridges and so far there was no successful result. Because we didn’t know how it worked, they didn’t know either – there were some experiments but never successful.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, are those experiments expensive and that’s why you didn’t go further with that, or you just decided it’s not worth the time, money, resources to do something that is maybe not- maybe the market is not ready for that. What was the reason to just give up?

Anežka Svobodová: Well, if I would be in the position to protect company, the company sense, I would say it was very expensive and we couldn’t carry on. That would make it seem like it was something very difficult and very expensive and something that not everyone could do. But since I’m not working there anymore and since I want to help some of the listeners of this podcast, I have to admit it wasn’t expensive at all. It was mostly experimentation like you would do in your kitchen. We would just like mix stuff, then sometimes just observed how it behaves. In some cases we would send it to a laboratory so they would do some microbiology on it. But in most cases it wasn’t about the money, it was mostly about finding the company who had some knowledge in it, who was willing to do it, so mostly like convincing people. ‘You want to do it, please do it, do it with us’. And then it was about priorities of course. Because we had lots of different ideas. We had ideas about these wet snacks that would be stored in fridges but at the same time we were still finishing the protein drink and lots of different things were going on. And then there was a big focus on Asia and they were asking for very different snacks. So in the end it was dropped, or rather postponed because just it didn’t bring any results and there was a big pressure to do some other things that were more successful.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Okay. So, what do you think about new product development? What would be the stages, what would be the steps that you’d have to do to develop new products? And what do you generally think about innovations?

Anežka Svobodová: That’s a very relevant question for what I’m doing at this very moment, for this new company that we are establishing. And well…I think most people see it as something very  complicated and something that has to be done in labs by food engineers or if it’s not food then other engineers. Most people think it’s something quite specific. My personal opinion is that it’s not, that practically everyone can try developing something of their own interests. Like, no matter if it’s food for some people, it can be toys for other people, it might be writing a book or whatever. But there are several approaches. You can either copy stuff, you can look at what’s on the market and make it better. You can- that’s what we do- you can ask the customers. So again in this new company the first thing that we did was we made a big customer research, we asked some people who were in our target group ‘what do you want from such a product, what are your expectations?’. Then they thought of what they want and now we are trying to make this. And there would be people who would say that this is a wrong approach that this would never bring the new- it would never bring the new Apple or whatever because you’re always asking about categories that people already have in mind. So I guess if you want to be really innovative you have to come up with something brilliant and just put it in the market. But from my experience the better way is to ask people what you want, and then of course you bring some innovation because if you have some experience in the market or in the field you can upgrade the ideas that they had. But I would say it’s much better to ask people what do you want and then the missing puzzle for me and for many listeners will be the technical knowledge. Because I didn’t study food, maybe you didn’t study the area that you’re interested in. So I would say try to find experts, try to find people who already do it and you would be surprised that most of them are really willing to talk. Like, I already said the producers that we worked with before – very few of them were afraid to talk to us. Most people will just tell you ‘yeah, you know, this wouldn’t work’ or ‘yeah, this is a brilliant idea, let’s try’. Most people are quite open so if you have an idea, just call them or, well, try to have a meeting if it’s possible and confirm with them your idea and most people will be willing to share knowledge. And then of course you can use Google which sounds obvious but in practice I don’t really find it that useful. It’s just a lot of passive information. I find it easier to just call someone or ask people who already do something similar. And actually what’s interesting is that through this European Institute of Technology we have been able to enroll in a different program which is only intended for women. It’s called EWA and- I don’t know…it’s something like Women Entrepreneurs and I don’t know – I mix the name all up. It’s a program intended for women in business and agribusiness and food. And they have been able to give us a mentor from another startup in food here in Prague. And this guy could be seen as our competitor in a way, but still he’s very much willing to share all his experiences. So that’s another proof that people are willing to share what they have gone through. So I’d say don’t be afraid to go and talk to people who already do it, and then again don’t be afraid to reach out for these programs because most of them are either free or they even give you some money. And they can help you, they can give you some direction. And I don’t want this to sound like I’m doing some advertisement for them- 

Sanja Milosavljevic: No, but it’s not! I’m surprised, like – many people, when I went to Warsaw last year many people asked me ‘where did you find this stuff’ and I told them ‘Well, on Google’. I just basically typed the keywords and the program came up. I randomly picked several and I was admitted to this program for new product development. So, you just have to look for them – they are there, they are all somewhere. You just have to find them. Can you- can you tell us- yes, sorry?

Anežka Svobodová: Yeah, I just want to say that there are many of them. I actually spotted several other ones and I guess in most countries there would be and this EIT one they have several programs for lots of different stages. Still, there is a lot of money available for startups and very early startups – even people with ideas. Not even projects, but individuals with ideas. There’s lots of money going into this still, still they have the funds. So I would say don’t be afraid and search for them. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I agree, that’s how I ended up in Warsaw. So, is it a business secret, or you can tell us what is your new business about? Or share- share something that you can share. 

Anežka Svobodová: Sure, sure. It’s not a secret. It’s just at a quite early stage so there isn’t much that you can check at this moment, but we are going to do a website where you can mix your own superfood drinks. So, we will be selling single ingredients, then premade mixes which will be tasty. And that’s a specific parameter for superfoods. Because I don’t know how familiar with superfoods but most of them like spirulina taste disgusting and people hate them. So, we are coming up with recipes that taste good and people will want to consume them. And the third function which is the most special one is that you will be able to mix your own mix at the website, so you don’t have to buy 10 different bags and then mix at home. So you can buy just one personalized mixture that would contain 2% of spirulina, 25% of curcuma, 50% of banana – whatever. Whatever you like. So that’s the idea.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Oh, that’s good. Are you going to outsource the producers of the ingredients, or are you just going to be a marketing and selling company or are you going to have your own production facilities?

Anežka Svobodová: We will not have our own facilities at least in the beginning. Because I also have a full time job in the corporation that I joined and my co-founder is in the same situation – she also has to do other work. And we don’t even have the money and the capacity. So we will be outsourcing because that’s all that we can afford. But what we want to do for the future is that we want to work closely with the suppliers of the ingredients and we want to work only with ethical suppliers. I don’t want to say that they have to be organic or they have to be fair trade because these are only stamps which companies have to pay for. Some of them could be ethical even without these particular stamps. But we want to be sure we can follow the processes of our suppliers so that we can make sure that the products that we do are all ethical. Because we know that with some superfoods it tends to be a bit dodgy. Because they are made in very exotic countries where there’s a lot of child labour, a lot of weird practices that we don’t want to support, we don’t want to be connected with. So, we want to work closely with suppliers. Then, we will probably have someone who will help us with the actual preparation of mixes and putting them in the bags and boxes and whatever packaging we will select. But that’s not such a big issue because it will probably be someone here in Prague where work has to be done ethically. Or, you know, there are lots of regulations so you can’t underpay people and you can’t actually employ anyone who’s under 16, so kids can’t do it.  

Sanja Milosavljevic: Why is it important? I know that is a part of your core values. Why is it important to be- to cooperate with ethical producers? For you and for a company?

Anežka Svobodová: Well, it has two aspects. One is that it’s extremely important to me. The other one is that it’s reflecting what people want, actually. So I would say there is a rise in this new awareness that people are starting to think where their food is coming from. And for me personally – I am a vegetarian for maybe 15 or 16 years and  I don’t want to contribute to cruelty towards animals and even more to cruelty towards people. So I would say it’s a core value to me. And maybe it’s because I realize that in many ways I’m privileged because I was born in a relatively rich country where we have enough of everything and where there’s peace. But I also realize that not everyone was so privileged, that many people live in terrible conditions and they have to work long hours, they don’t have fair pay. There’s a lot of issues so I don’t want to make it worse in any way. I want to do something which is meaningful and which helps other people improve their lives a little. Because in general that’s the core value maybe. I believe in meritocracy and that if you work hard your life situation should improve. And as such I want to create conditions where the work that other people do for our company can improve their lives. So if they work hard, if they do good products, if they do good ingredients and whatever then I think they should get fair pay and their lives should improve as well.

Sanja Milosavljevic: That’s nice and that’s noble and I think and I hope that the future economy is going to really be based on fair trade and ethical production. Fine. What other core values are important for you? When you think about developing a new business or developing a new product?

Anežka Svobodová: So, with products I think it’s all about doing something that you can sign under. So, doing something that you believe in the quality of. So I think that you should always be convinced that it’s a good product, and that you’re not just selling people something quite bad just for the money of it. I think you should always be able to stand for it and say this is something that I would buy for myself. So I would have some ethical issues if I worked for a company that did something that I personally wouldn’t like to buy. So this is quite important. Then it’s this ethical argument, and then the other thing is of course sustainability. I wouldn’t want to work on something that is making the environment worse-off. So we will try to be climate-neutral if possible. Of course there are a lot of challenges, lots of practicalities which will be difficult, especially in the beginning. But we are certainly aiming for recyclable packaging and for reduction of waste wherever possible. So, one of the ideas that we are exploring is that some of the ingredients that come to our mixes would be made from those ‘ugly’ vegetables and fruits which are not sold in supermarkets because they are too ugly – they have weird shapes or they’re too small, too big. So we aim to be buying these and then have them converted to powders because we are working with powders and then working with those, because they are practically seen as waste. So that’s an idea of how we could be somehow more sustainable. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, I spoke to a friend – she’s from Italy, Enriqua. She also participated in this project and she said that basically no one is 100% sustainable. You know? You are always going to leave some kind of a footprint, you are going to use some kind of materials that cannot be recycled, or whatever. But you can try to just lower to the lowest level. 

Anežka Svobodová: Yeah, I would say even living and breathing is the most unsustainable thing you could do. And if you wanted to limit your impact then kill yourself. That would be the most sustainable thing we could do because we ourselves produce lots of gasses, we consume lots of food, we have a huge impact in terms of water and stuff. But of course the core value which is probably even sustainability is life itself and sustaining life. So I would say within the limits of staying alive, healthy and having enough food for ourselves and having enough other resources that we need, we are all responsible for trying at least. And of course it will not be perfect – it’s very difficult, very challenging, especially for small companies. But even for big ones, that’s also another topic. Because I also started working for a corporation – one of the major ones for food in the world and they also have some issues with sustainability but they are trying, which is good. But we are all responsible, so I would say it’s always worth trying. And probably with packaging it will be difficult because let’s say there are some- you know, you can have some materials which are technically recyclable but in many places they are not recycled. Because maybe your town or your city doesn’t have the recycling plant. So for example for compostable packaging, it seems to be nice and recyclable but many towns in Europe don’t recycle them because they don’t have compost plants. So there are always issues but I think even people who think about it already contribute because they make lots of small changes, lots of small decisions every day and maybe that’s also helpful. But we never know.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, you can always try. You know? Step by step, change by change and then on a huge level that can really make an impact or change something. Okay, can you tell us something about the state of entrepreneurship in Czech republic? And please I know you were also in Berlin and in Prague, so if you can make- kind of, I don’t know, just…to see what the state of entrepreneurship, or startup scene, startup ecosystems look in those two cities?

Anežka Svobodová: Well, I don’t really have that much knowledge about the one in Berlin, but I can speak about the Czech one. I would say it’s thriving and there probably wasn’t as much of it in the beginning but yesterday I read in the news that there was some European competition for the fastest companies in the tech sectors and they chose 50 of them from Europe and something like 20 or even more of those fastest-growing tech companies were from Czech Republic. So we have lots of hugely growing companies. And that’s perfect, that’s really good. And it’s- I think it reflects the state of entrepreneurship here, I would say there are lots of tech companies here. Lots of people doing IT stuff, doing security and the related disciplines. I personally found it quite difficult to do something else in the beginning because when I finished studying I wanted to stay in London at first because there are lots of different startups in lots of different fields. And then when I moved here there was this company that I worked for that worked with alternative protein, but to be honest there were not many other startups in other fields. So that was difficult but I would say it’s slowly changing, because now there are lots of other things and we have sustainable startups in underwear for women’s periods, we have lots of things in agrifood now thanks to those European programs as well and new ecosystems are arising. I think it’s also thanks to particular people who are doing a lot. So there are people who are doing startup programs, accelerators, who are doing conferences and that helps a lot. I think that could be a good message for people from other countries where the ecosystem isn’t really strong. That even if you maybe start your own initiative which might seem rather small in the beginning, maybe you will produce one or two startups but they’ll generate twenty people and those twenty people in five years time will have five different companies, or 50 different companies. So I would say it’s worth starting somewhere and then it leads to other things. And other proof for this is the company where I worked since. So when I started there weren’t many sustainable food companies or startups in the country and now when I left, I can say that there are already three other companies that are somehow made from that company. So it’s still alive and the people who already left the company established new ones.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Are they also related to alternative sources of protein, or are they just- no?

Anežka Svobodová: No. No, they are different startups. So one is for fertility, then our one and other things. It’s all different things, but if you start spreading the mentality that people can start somewhere and start their own projects, it will grow and it will spread. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: So do you think that there must be, I don’t know, a state or government that is standing behind, supporting those initiatives or do you think that it’s just basically that individuals have to cooperate and make that ecosystem that is good for startups?

Anežka Svobodová: I don’t think it’s about the state. It would probably be better if the state helped somehow, but to be honest I don’t think I’ve seen much help from the state so far. Not really. All the help that we ever received was from the EU. So that’s something above the state and that was hugely beneficial. But the Czech state as such, I think they have some programs for startups but everyone’s always laughing about them because they are ridiculous. Like, they don’t meet the expectations and they revert you. There was one program for small grants which was awarded from European Structural Funds and distributed by the city magistrate, by the authority. And it was actually so bad that in the first round people participated, but in the second one they had very small expectations of it. Because the paperwork took over the year and they didn’t themselves hold to the deadlines they set so it took them another year to evaluate those projects and they were very slow and there were a few scandals involved. So I would say the state part isn’t very functional in this – maybe they are trying but I don’t see they’re successful so far. But the European part was great, that was helpful so far and then I think it’s up to individuals, or networks, rather networks of individuals who are trying. And sometimes you can see some contributions by either universities who are trying to get involved. But that’s again because of European money. Because some of the European funds are structured so that startups have to cooperate with Universities. So that’s helpful. And then sometimes you would see some corporations that have programs for startups, so that might be helpful. But mostly I think it’s down to the individual networks which are run by individuals who are enthusiastic and who want to help. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: What do you think about the fact that- I don’t know how it is in Czech Republic, but I strongly believe that there must be a connection between University and some tech parks, startups and you have to connect people with business backgrounds with engineers with whatever. So you have to make a group of people that can in one network- that can help each other develop a business. Like I’m- maybe I have a business background but I’m not an engineer and I have an idea but I don’t know how to connect with people and I have no one in my network who can connect me with someone. Is it different in Czech, in Prague? Do we have that kind of connection between those dots that can basically produce a product, that can be scalable? 

Anežka Svobodová: I think it’s again down to the European project. Probably. Because the way that they are structured is that usually it’s that on one side it’s the entrepreneurial individual that applies for the project. So it would be me, or you or another group. And they apply and then in many of those projects they can collaborate with a technical or a research university and that’s how the technical people get involved. And then they get some other colleagues and some other people who are involved from different fields. But I have the feeling that it would be very difficult for the authority, state or whoever to assemble the teams because the people have to somehow find their own ways. But I think it’s quite good if they incentivize with money all the other people like universities to get involved. If they have a reason. Because otherwise if an entrepreneur just walked to an university it would be impossible to get connected because they would say ‘oh, we have too many projects going on, you don’t have any money’. And their structure is also really complicated because they have certain deadlines to meet and they are working in different calendar years and the projects can only start at a certain time and it’s all rather complicated. So I think it’s good if it’s supported that you as an entrepreneur can join the program that helps you get connected. But I don’t think that anyone can do it externally in terms of walking in and saying ‘you, you and you will be a team and you will do a project’.

Sanja Milosavljevic: I know. That would be strange, basically. Tell me how did this pandemic, this Corona and COVID, how did it affect you, did it affect you, did it change your life? I think that you actually started this business during this period, yeah? Can you share with us? Can you tell us how that was for you? Did it change you?

Anežka Svobodová: So, I think it changed the lives of everyone here in the Czech Republic because for us it’s actually quite cruel. Because we have curfew that you have to be at home after 9PM in the evening. So you cannot go outside after 9. Then, only shops with food are open. No other shops are open. And the schools only opened this week for some children, not all of them. So it’s very isolated. All offices have to keep people at home if they can. Of course like if you work in a factory it’s impossible, but if you work for a company which can do it, they have to keep you at home. And so we are spending a lot of time in isolation. And I guess that’s the same for all around Europe. For some people it’s worse, for some people it’s better. But my personal experience is that I’ve been sitting on this chair for half a year now, or many months. And it’s kind of difficult but it’s also one of the reasons that we started a new project. Because I was sitting at home for a long time and my friend contacted me and I thought that I’d really like something new to start. It wasn’t that I would have the extra time, it was more that there was no excitement. Because I was only spending time here. Because normally I do lots of sports, I spend a lot of time in nature, I go to lots of events, I visit people. But now there wasn’t so much of it and I felt that I needed some new project, I needed something exciting. So when she contacted me that she had this idea, I was like ‘yeah, let’s do it, let’s do it!’ Let’s start with something exciting because then it brings new people, new experiences and new things that come. So that was for me and so far we’ve been very lucky because we are doing a project that is in the food sector. And I would say food is probably going to be sold even if there’s an economic crisis, even if people get slightly lower income. It’s a question if it will impact them so much that they will cut their spending on luxury foods like superfoods which are of course not a necessity. So that’s a question. So we will see. But I would say we are in the lucky sector. Because if we started an app for tourism, we would probably not be able to continue. So that was a lucky factor. But again  I think we are on the privileged side here because neither of us suffered financially. Because I managed to start a new job in that corporation as well – and that was very lucky because lots of people that are entrepreneurs who are working on their own personal business licenses who are not getting salaries but who are invoicing their clients, they are having a tough time. And I read the statistic that one third of these people, of these small business people had their incomes lowered or they suffered financially basically. So that’s the numbers and it’s maybe going to get worse. There was some state support, the state is trying to give them some money, but it’s more of a joke, it’s not so much. I know that they can’t do much. Of course it’s paid from taxpayers’ money and it’s all expensive and complicated but practically  I feel that many people are going through a tough time and it will get much worse. I feel really sorry for all the restaurant and pub owners around here because they can’t open and I know that every single day of being closed costs them a lot of money. And now, I’m not even sure how many weeks or days it’s been since things have been closed, but I think it’s maybe like five weeks now, since the big closure of everything here. So it’s like five weeks of no sales for them. So that’s quite harsh and so I feel very sorry for them. And I’m very lucky not to be touched so much. For me it was mostly like a creative spark, for them it was maybe a destructive thing. But you know, maybe the destruction will bring new ideas. Or as they will want or need to cope with the new situation they will come up with new ideas. If the environment allows for it. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I agree. I think that it’s basically a very tough time and it’s very challenging but you can use your spare time or the time you have now to think of some new ideas and to just-

Anežka Svobodová: I think this is also specific to the situation. Because let’s say that now I’m not so stressed because I know that I have some income coming. But there was a time when I was looking for a new job and I was a bit stressed and I really found that it was blocking any creative energy. And I imagine that for these people who have their businesses bankrupting that for them, maybe they have all days free, they have lots of time on their hands, they might have lots of resources as well, but I imagine that the stress could be so strong that it doesn’t really allow them to think or do anything. That they are just paralyzed because they don’t know what the future for their business and family will be. So they can’t really think. That can be quite tough and I think we should all just admit it. Because usually we are like ‘yeah, just do something new, stand on your- knees’ that wasn’t that sentence, but…just come up with something new. But we don’t realize that even the stress factor and the suffering can be so paralyzing that many people are not able to do it yet. Maybe they will be later on when it stabilizes a bit.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yeah, I know, I agree. It is – as you said, we are in a lucky industry. I’m also in the food industry, so I know how it was for me and how it was for some friends of mine who run their own businesses. Sometimes I was even ashamed to say how well I’m doing because I see them closing their businesses, so it was hard. Fine, so…what will be your message? Can you share something with us? You said what your hobbies are, but can you tell us what you read, can you share some titles that were very interesting or helpful for you? Because I know – as I said we spent some time together and I know that you are working on your personal development, on your body development, on your business development, so there are probably some resources that you can share with us. And share some message with the world.

Anežka Svobodová: So, message…I don’t know if I’m in the position to give messages, but probably if I had to share one thing with everyone who wants to start – or who’s not even thinking about starting – it’s go ahead and try it and don’t be afraid. And it sounds like a stupid cliche and it doesn’t really help, but there are lots of initiatives that can help you, lots of people who can help you and there are lots of resources still. It might be different after the crisis, it might change, but I would say still it’s available. The other thing is that as women we are quite not as privileged as men in many aspects of business and life and such, but in terms of these startup and other support initiatives, the EU is trying to do a lot to contrabalance the common trend of women being disprivileged, so there is a lot of money available to women only. So if you are a woman or a girl especially, not a man, I would say your chances of starting and getting help are quite good at this time. So see it as your benefit rather than your advantage because lots of people are trying to counterbalance the common trend. So go ahead and just go and apply for those programs that are intended for women. And then in terms of book recommendations, I read a very good book recently. It’s called “Girl, woman, other”. It’s written by…let me check…Bernardine Evaristo. And it’s a story- a modern story which is happening in the UK and it’s explaining destinies of several – maybe 10, 12, I’m not sure how many exactly – women with different destinies. Some of them are hetereosexual, some of them are homosexual, some of them are young and old, some of them are native from Britain, some of them are immigrants and it’s very inspiring in the sense that it shows how different people can be and it also shows how people can change their attitudes. So there’s a story of someone who’s really racist and then they discover they also have some ancestors  who have been black or different. So I would recommend this for all people interested in the topic of gender, different sexual moulds and race as well. So that’s interesting and then my other favorite book of this year was…let me check…it’s written by- I can’t find it, but it’s written by Madeline Miller. I have no idea how it’s pronounced because I only read it as text. I never listened to any audio that mentions it. It’s called- it’s spelled Circe. It’s about a Greek goddess. Maybe I completely pronounced it wrong. I am not sure. But check it out, it’s by Madeline Miller and she has re-written part of Greek mythology through the perspective of one goddess. So it’s like seen through the eyes of a woman who is unprivileged as well and who is- she doesn’t have very good skills like all the other Greek gods had – she’s not very beautiful, she’s not very smart, she’s not very anything, she’s just very average and she’s pretty much disliked by everyone. So it’s a good story in the sense that it gives you a lot of hope that even if you are the one on the side maybe you can find your special ability. Because she discovers that she’s a witch and then she starts to take her own perspective and she revenges all the other females and you know, she starts being powerful on her own. So I think it’s a great book on female empowerment. And also it’s good because it’s Greek mythology but it’s seen through modern eyes. Or like, it’s written in modern language, at least, it’s not modernized. So I would recommend this one.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Thank you. Thank you, Anežka, thank you so much. Thank you for accepting my invitation. I know it was- we couldn’t find the time and the date, but thank you for finding time to participate in this.

Anežka Svobodová: Well, thank you so much for inviting me.

Sanja Milosavljevic: As I said you have so many things to say because you have so many layers of your personality, and you can share different stories. And when I said that you are successful, by the end of this conversation I hope that you also see that you are successful. 

Anežka Svobodová: Well, I hope that I’ll be able to talk to you in one or two years from now and that I’ll be able to show some numbers that will prove that I’m successful. Like in terms of sales of new products. That would mean success to me – if I was able to show you a spreadsheet saying ‘oh look, we sold so much, there’s so much profit that we made’. That would be success in my eyes. So, let’s hope…

Sanja Milosavljevic: Okay, so I keep my fingers crossed.

Anežka Svobodová: Thank you!

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, you were listening to Anežka from Czech Republic. This was Mondopreneur podcast, and if you like it you can follow us on social media networks like Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, or you can find us on YouTube and most of the audio platforms available. So stay good, stay in good health and see you in a week.