Sanja Milosavljevic: Hi, hello, my name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I’m going to be your host today. Today, my guest is going to be Tana Zimmermann. She comes from Zagreb, Croatia and once again we are going to speak in the so-called our language. She is going to speak in Croatian, I’m going to speak in Serbian because we understand each other. So enjoy our conversation. Hello Tana, how are you?

Tana Zimmermann: Hello, great – how are you?

Sanja Milosavljevic: I am fine, so happy that we are doing this, and you are going to share your story with us, for which I think is very interesting and good one,a s well- Tell me, what does the word “Bazar” mean to you?

Tana Zimmermann: Well, bazar is a sort of market place, a place where people exchange goods.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Tell me, where did the idea to start bazar.hr come from?

Tana Zimmermann: Well, the whole story about how we started our business was more like some kind of prank between me and my younger brother. Where he claimed he could do something on his own, and I said I’m not sure it’s all that easy. So we started little by little, through years, talking about different ideas about what we could do. And so one day we came up with the idea to open our own kind of classifieds, let’s say something like that. But some kind of hybrid that would allow small businesses to sell online in a safe way and customers to be able to shop safely. And it was in 2012. We were, well, I lived in the States, 6-7 years before that and that internet shopping was a normal thing for me, online e-commerce, everything that is still not present in Croatia. That was already normal in the States in 2006, and I somehow naively believed that it would be very simple and we will now start a big revolution in Croatia. However, it even started very well. We, and I clearly remember that day, like it was today, it was 21st of May 2013, we published on Facebook that new bazar, classified and we crashed all the servers. So, it had a really good effect. People liked it very much. We even had some calls from the investors. It was, I mean, it was all small, small amount of money, but it was unbelievable to us that we already had two or three inquiries for some more serious business cooperation that first day. And we recognised that everything is going in a good direction. And then we started to develop it throughout the years and we have Bazzar as it is today. I can talk in details, but I am not sure how much details you want-

Sanja Milosavljevic: No, no, go ahead! Because it is a very popular topic nowadays. It is quite topical in Serbia. There are a lot of e-shops, platform for connecting small businesses with customers without intermediaries. It is like, why should we be paying to retailers to lend us shelfs in the markets when we can do all of that online, pay online with organised delivery. It is our example also, everything was in baby steps, slowly, and than Covid came, and all of a sudden, everything exploded. It was as – you had demand, but at the end, logistics and delivery services failed because they didn’t achieve to deliver that amount of goods.  So, can you say that you are some kind of pioneers in Croatia_ You know? For me, 2013, for e-commerce in our region, it is a short period of time, it is not…

Tana Zimmermann: Yes. Ok, we started in 2013 with that classified, and then, Viktor had some idea to expand it. And then, at the end of 2013, at the startup weekend at a peach, organized in Dubrovnik, we won the first place for this kind of idea of a hybrid marketplace and advertisement place. And it tokk as a year to build it, so, the first version with a basket and with the possibility of online purchase came out in the third month of 2015. It was incredible for us, because we were working that whole night, chilled a bit, and went to sleep at dawn and when we woke up, it was Saturday morning, 9 or 10 am and we realised that we already had our first purchase. The buyer came to the platform, although we haven’t announced it anywhere, the seller called delivery service, delivery service came to the seller, took the package and it was on its way to buyer, and we slept it. (laugh) and we realised, it is alive – party! And it started so good, that the next expectation was 100 orders the first day. Of course, it wasn’t going that fast at first, but yes, it was kind of a start. And then we tested it for the whole of 2015, and then we actually realized that all those small companies we wanted to work with, I mean> family farms, small producers of some food, producers of some furniture or any producers of anything in Croatia, they weren’t too interested to be on the web in 2015 because like, it’s complicated, who will deal with it now, who will pay for the shipping boxes … and it wasn’t there, I have to admit, too much of interest. And then this one, the ones we managed to persuade to get involved, to join, there was another problem that we as a marketplace don`t shipp, each seller sends for himself. And then, if a buyer wants to buy honey from one supplier, potato from another and fruits from the third one, he has to pay for three deliveries. And everyone said, no way – delivery service is more expensive than the product. So, it was a huge problem that is still present. So, today in Croatia, even though it all exploded, there was a buzz during Korona that we will all buy from small producers, but we all have simply, more or less, given up because rarely anyone is willing to pay something, say in the range of 15 euros plus 4 euros for delivery services, just to buy from four different vendors to receive the products.

Sanja Milosavljevic: What do you think, what can be the solution?

Tana Zimmermann: To be honest, I don`t know. But it sounds to me like something that was in some earlier times, some kind of cooperatives or something like that. Someone who gathers producers in certain territory and in one place, and stores it somehow. It doesn’t even have to be in some large quantities, but exactly the amount that equals the demand, and there is someone who has the experience of how to place it on various marketplaces, web shops and so on. I think it would be great to do something like that because then that company, association, cooperative, whatever it is called, could have its own web shop. It can also be on marketplaces like Bazaar, or some others. And then customers could buy in one place, let’s say I don’t know, in Croatia, the region around the city of Sisak and there are 150 producers who produce various food and gather it all in one place and send everything to one place. However, there should be someone who has that knowledge, who can, in some way, make those people and producers meet the buyers expectations. We had problems, where people would regularly send goods, and then, they would go on vacation and for a month, there were no deliveries. So, cancel the orders. How can you cancel the order, once a person buys something, he or she expects to have it in two or three days, and then you call him to tell that the producers went for a holiday. So…

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, those are the challenges. Do you know what is interesting for me? At the beginning, you said that the platform should be done in a quality way. To design it well, let’s say. What do you mean by quality way? What is it that is representative? What is it that is working? You have six years of experience, what would that be?

Tana Zimmermann: Well, I think it’s okay, it may not be in the sphere of quality, but I think that persistence is the most important thing in all of this. Persistence is the number one, because there will be both, ups and downs and there will be problematic situations, there will be problematic suppliers, there will be problematic customers, there will be situations where you don’t know, you need people and you don’t have anyone to hire, because there are not much experienced people. And what matters is that in some way you test everything you do and that you really come to some logical conclusions as to why someone gave up on purchase. We should be critical towards ourselves. I think maybe the biggest problem is that we all often think that we are the smartest and yes- and we can’t understand that there may actually be a technical problem or a visual problem. People that are buying on the internet for the first time, they can be terrified by all sorts of things. We often laugh, as we frequently have problems with cookie policy. We had a customer, we have one email that we all always laugh at and we always show it at training for customer service where the customer wrote “I just want to buy a replacement remote controler for this TV. You offer me cookies, and I don’t want cookies. Send me the remote controler without cookies.” Thanks for the cookies, but I don’t want them, plus he wrote that he is a diabetic and that he is not supposed to eat sweets. So in this example you can see that that is confusing for someone. And okay cookie policy you can’t change, you can just make it a little customizable, but you can do some other things to make it easier for people, to see that not everyone’s the same, that not everyone has the same computers, it’s not the same thing how page looks on a mobile phone or computer. It’s not the same thing as it looks on an iPhone and on some older android, where some elements just crack because the technology back then wasn’t as advanced as it is today. There are a lot of things to count on. For example, our first version of the Bazzar was so technologically advanced that 25% of browsers could support it. And then we realized that we just have to cut back a little bit with that technology because we’re with that technology like in America and our consumers aren’t, or 25% of them don’t have a device that can support it.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, I understand. Those are the challenges that you can get insights when you experience them in practice. Or to have a good team of developers and business analysts so they can foresee these things.

Tana Zimmermann: But, when you have that kind of developer team, you are no longer a start-up and you don’t develop those ideas. Then you are a corporation that starts with some set of knowledge they learned at some conferences, which I also think is not the happiest solution

Sanja Milosavljevic: Why do you think that? Tell me.

Tana Zimmermann: Well no, often there are big companies that think it’s easy to make a web shop, they have the money, they have the resources and then they do something and then it fails. Because it’s not all about money, there is something in that effort, work, commitment, some work when you really enjoy what you do and when you do it with love, with your heart, with 100% energy and so totally different and then you profit from it.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Tell me, how many small producers do you have in Bazzar`s base? Do you have a clue?

Tana Zimmermann: I don`t know, 50 maybe. Regarding just producers. Then we have 50 – 60 small businesses, but not necessarily producers, they sell some other things. And then these are mostly some kind of small and medium-sized companies, even large distributiors, which then sell some branded goods.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Is it possible, for example, that someone from Serbia, a manufacturer from Serbia or Bosnia or Macedonia, can they be found at your web shop, for example?

Tana Zimmermann: Unfortunately, not.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Why?

Tana Zimmermann: There is more than one reason, there are borders, customs, European union. If you have asked me for someone from Slovenia, they can. It would be a little more logistically expensive because, for example, it is unbelievable that you have an hour’s drive from Zagreb to Ljubljana and six hours from Zagreb to Dubrovnik, but a package to Ljubljana costs six times more than a package to Dubrovnik. So each of these border crossings greatly increases the logistical costs of the shipment five to six times. And then we come to the point, considering that Serbia, Bosnia and Macedonia are not in the European Union, and that the whole customs, paperwork, it would not be profitable to ship for some small order. And yet, at the moment, it is not even profitable for us to, for example, to import a truck of goods from Serbia and place them there because it is mostly food and goods with short shelf life, so … at this moment it is not possible but not because we would not like to, rather simply put, it is such a situation.

Sanja Milosavljevic: No, that’s why I`ve chosen to ask you about Bosnia, Serbia and Macedonia. I know that Slovenia is in the EU, and the regulations are different and different laws apply, so it’s a little more relaxed. I ask you just like this because there are, I don’t know, there are so many good and quality products from Macedonia, Serbia and Bosnia, and I know that there is some individual demand. So, now it is not something on a big level, so now, as you say, collective transport is organized and goods are imported. And I know there is a demand. I know that there is, I don’t know, for some products from Serbia, and I know that people order and when someone travels, especially now with the summer season, and like, when someone goes to the sea, they bring our apron to Croatia. It happened. Great! What is it like to be a women manager, leader, leader in her sphere? What is it like? What is it like in Croatia?

Tana Zimmermann: Well … I don’t know how to say, I’m kind of not too upset regarding that. (laughter) For me, it is not that important. As soon as I see that in the media, they constantly encourage women, women’s entrepreneurship and so on, I don’t look at myself now as I am a woman, so now it’s harder for me, easier differently or something. I think let’s say, a lot more in the business that I maybe had issues when I was younger. Where they couldn’t get you serious because you are young, more than being a woman. At least, I didn’t have that kind of experience, but I know and believe the people had, that other women had. But in my business, the business I run, I didn’t have obstacles because I am a woman. I think that women can do everything just like men, I think we are okay anyhow – both women and men have some advantages and disadvantages, ie some things where you are better where you are stronger, but that it may be more individual and not so much male-female oriented. There are people that don’t handle stressful situations, and there are some that handle them. Some like to negotiate, some are more self-effacing, they are all some, some characteristics of people, not so many male and female based, at least I don’t see it that way.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Good, great attitude. I am also guided by the fact that there is no difference between men and women now and I run my business – I run it the best I know. I mean, I’m not starting from the fact whether I’m going to run it better or worse, rather than I have knowledge or I don’t have knowledge or I know how to use tools or I don’t know how to use tools when I need to finish a job. And do you have any advice, for example, or maybe even some problems that you went through when you had to choose the team you will work with? Team that will be coworkers?

Tana Zimmermann: Well, that has changed a lot over the years, but here is something that we have somehow realized lately, learned that in essence the character of a person is the most important, that everything else can be learned. At least in our business. Not for some work that needs expertise, like programming because you need knowledge to do it. But simply even when I have knowledge, when knowledge is there, I think that a person’s character is the most important and that he fits well into the existing team and that this team pushes each other without any bad relations. Because, simply put, one person that does not fit into the team can upset the whole balance of the team. I am very pleased that we have really great people in the company and that we manage to gather the really best people who are all – everyone really works for the Bazzar, everyone has a really great desire, everyone does it with heart, with soul to the maximum. So that is the most important for me.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Okay, do you have, I don’t know, that kind of introduction to your company so that you can share your values with your employees or future employees. Do they get familiar with your values?

Tana Zimmermann: Well yes, but not as formal maybe as it should be or as it might be in some corporations with some big numbers because of course, we don’t have enough people. So we don’t have, say, plenty of numbers, now we recently hired one employee, we were looking for one person, so we had two competitions – we got 700 applications. 700 job applications, of which, I will say, 600 certainly did not satisfy the basic things that are required and we wanted to answer each one individually, but I think … how? And who? It would take us two weeks to respond to 700 emails, to look at each one and to write a specific personalized email. That is simply not possible. But for that reason, we don’t have some things maybe still strictly prepared, but of course we talk to people and in conversation the first week or two, when we go through all the things, we talk about what we are what we do and why we do it, but people who apply to work with us usually already do the research and know where they come to and they want to be a part of that story. That’s how our employees are. They already know and want to be here, and that is why they are our employees.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, great! That is so nice, what you said, that they do research and they actually want to work with you. Nice. How did you spend time during Coronavirus? Where did it find you?

Tana Zimmermann: Well, that way, yes… We didn’t know what to expect. We were already preparing at the beginning of the third month, we saw that it was going in some direction and that something could happen. But we secretly hoped that it would last for a couple of days and that was it. Like, we are not going to make a fuss about it. However, in that week, a week before a real lockdown took place in Croatia, we saw that numbers were going up a lot and we wanted to protect ourselves and our workers, so we agreed that we would be, by 13.03. It was Friday, working in a firm and then from next week, we will work from home for a week and  we will see what to do further. We can work like that, we are all online, so that part was not strange for us. Well, Friday the 13th was my birthday, and we, in the company we were celebrating my birthday, so we actually did my birthday at distance and under masks. For my birthday, I got a disinfectant and package of masks. And we all went home and like, we were working from home and that’s it. And what happened a week later, an earthquake happened in Zagreb.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Oh, I remember that. And I remember those shocking pictures from TV from some maternity hospital or something and literally the first thing I thought was like isn’t Corona enough, I mean isn’t it enough that people suffer from it, and now all of a sudden you have something over which you just really don’t have any control. So, you can put on a mask and wash your hands, and protect yourself, but you cannot protect yourself from earthquakes. I mean, it’s a natural force that is unstoppable. What did that look like?

Tana Zimmermann: It was total madness. It was Sunday, 06:15 am. Me and a friend of mine were sleeping over because of Corona, and we were working together. And we woke up in the morning and I can see the city`s centre. You could see a cloud of dust rising and I can’t say that I was okay with it. I am in a new building, so we didn’t suffer any problems or damage. But my mum is in the city centre, upper part and we called mum, she was captured in her apartment. She couldn’t leave the bedroom, everything fell down – photos, closets, doors stuck and couldn’t be opened. And so on… It was total madness. Everyone went out to the streets, as they said in the case of earthquake, you should go out. And you see people in their pajamas, half naked, and it wasn’t that warm. The worst story is that when people went outside about 7am, half an hour later there was another earthquake and half an hour later it started to snow. Now, these people are standing outside and everyone is afraid to enter their homes, no one has a mask because who thought about the masks. And it was snowing and cold and it was chaotic. Strong fear entered the people, especially in the center of Zagreb. No one lives there any more, the city is empty. In a way it was good because it was the pandemic because everything was closed, so there was only one human victim here. I think a girl, small girl, I mean terrible. But if it weren’t for Korona, there are shootings from the city center where all those cafes are, everything collapsed on that cafe.  And if it was a normal time, if it was a working day, Corona… I don’t even want to think about it. So, in a way, it was a lucky twist, but horrible in fact. That maternity, five of them, means they all had to be pulled out, babies were born during the earthquake, it was just chaotic.. And the worst thing was, it didn`t stop. We had about a hundred earthquakes for the next ten days, it was constantly shaking and we just had all those notifications, there was an application that notified you when there was an earthquake.  We were receiving notifications, and it was shaking all the time. And we got used to it, when the quake is 3 on the scale, it was nothing. Because, 5, you know…and then the media says, if we had this one, we will have even stronger, and if get stronger, nothing can save us. And we have Coronavirus, we are expecting new earthquakes and we do not know when it’s going to hit, and that is going to be terrible. So, the whole situation was so chaotic. And we, as we were working online, our business exploded. We were like, we didn’t know where to go, you have to work. I mean, my mum came over, so mum was here and she helped me cook and with other stuff, and she also got some tasks and she helped us working, we were all working. My friends that work in companies couldn’t do anything at home, they were so bored so they asked me to give them something to work, let me help you somehow, I am bored. So it was so intense, so hectic. The biggest problem for us was that the delivery services weren’t prepared, like you said, they did, some of them fired people a week before everything started, thinking that the business would fall. So, when the business exploded they didn’t have enough manpower. So, in that segment, it was chaotic. But , we managed to enable our supermarket in about a week, list over two thousand food products, chemicals, detergents, basic hygiene and we managed to arrange it all through one partner in one warehouse with one fast delivery and that was okay. But then it so happened that there were no goods because the trucks were stuck, stuck at the borders and there were simply no products, occasionally. You couldn’t order, everything was late and it was chaotic.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Did people have understanding? I mean, I know that I had understanding. I order online for years now, both from local and foreign suppliers, and it was clear to me, that the things I have waited for two days, I will have to wait, four, five, six days. And it was okay with me, I was prepared for that.  But I know that some people were very angry. I was angry – as a sender, not me as a recipient. So, I pay for a more expensive service and then you lose, forget, brake and fail to deliver the package. Did people in Croatia have understanding for late and postponed deliveries…

Tana Zimmermann: Well, yes. We immediately wrote on our Facebook page and on each product that we ask for their understanding because of any possible delays that will occur. If something will not be able to be delivered or something is extra late we will contact them electronically by email or however to see what customers want. And there is always part of population that is going to be angry. So they wrote to us, “Corona is an excuse for everything, why it didn`t arrived yet, I am here, several streets away from you”, so we had that. But I will say, small percentage, most of the people understood the situation. We always tried to find a replacement for the product that couldn`t be bought at the moment, as we sometimes have custom made products on offer. That come from abroad, or are custom made. We announced that also, I don`t know, delivery in five to ten days. We would call those buyers to inform them that we cannot guarantee that delivery would happen in five to ten days, as that good is not here at the moment. We also depend on some third party to send it so that we can send it further. And people really had understanding. What exploded here,were bicycles.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Really!

Tana Zimmermann: Yes, we sold thousands and thousands of bicycles. Not just us, the whole Croatia. Somewhere, in the middle of fourth month, there was no single bicycle in Croatia. So, they were selling…

Sanja Milosavljevic: (laughter) Sorry, I mean great! But it is unusual. I expected you would say, toilet paper, flour, but I wasn’t expecting bicycles. I expected everything, except bicycles.

Tana Zimmermann: We sold all of that, baking powder, and everything you need for baking cookies. Cookies, I don’t know what was the thing with the cookies. I guess everyone wanted to bake at home…

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, people wanted to kill time somehow.

Tana Zimmermann: Yes… But once they – I don`t know for how long it lasted, but it lasted for month, month and a half – they shut down public transportation. You couldn’t go anywhere. So, some people had to go to work, they needed to reach their workplace. So, that was one of the reasons for buying bicycles, to go to work, and another thing was that people were with their kids, locked down in apartments and they wanted to go somewhere. So, where shall we go, let’s go somewhere where we can ride bicycles because you cannot catch the virus there. So I guess that was the reason, but bottom line, there were no bicycles. So, they were selling a lot. So, medium range. And when the medium range sold out, cheaper started to sell, expensive, the most expensive, whatever type. They didn`t question the brand, is it a good bicycle – just give us more.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Just give us. Let it just roll, yes. Interesting. How would you rate your media? For example, here, we had a sort of spreading panic, or some total coolness that does not correspond to the situation we are in. So, on one hand you have a great number of infected persons, deceased, and someone tells you it is a joke, some kind of a prank, and you also had people that spread panic. How was it with you? I mean, I followed the media from Croatia, and looked at the measures you took. And in my opinion, your measurements were okay, they were not that tight as here, and at the same time, you didn’t have a high number of infected persons.

Tana Zimmermann: I would say it varied, somehow. We had, and you also had, if I am not mistaken, elections this summer – that was something. But, fine, it was meant to be. And before that, during this lockdown, we had all sorts of things – there were media that spread panic and – not that I believe, they shouldn’t. I think that people need to be clearly communicated how dangerous it is and everything, but there were some that went to extremes just to get publicity and clicks. And then on the other hand, that same media first writes an article that is terribly negative, now everything is bad, it’s a catastrophe, and then the next one retells some conspiracy theory from some fifth irrelevant media, and I think that that got people totally confused. Because it was a bit of a drama, we will all die, it was a bit like, it was invented by 5g, Bill Gates, chipping, the Earth is flat and all those total extremes. And people started to get lost a bit. I think that the first two or three weeks or maybe even, I don’t know, a month, everyone in Croatia strongly supported the officials, supported all measures, there was applause from the balcony, singing from the balcony, it was just it. And then they just – I think it’s partly because of the media partly because of that kind of insecurity, anxiety that you’re locked down at home with no income, you don’t know what will happen, so people just started talking it doesn’t matter, I’m going to die but I have to go outside, we had it all there.. As time goes by, there are a lot of people that are against the measures, against the masks, they are protesting because of the masks and all that situation. So, I don’t know what to say.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, similar to the situation here, actually. It’s like, they all went to the same school for journalism, and they are sending, more or less, the same messages. How did your government react? What was the help they offered to entrepreneurs? For example, I remember when everything started somewhere in March, a Facebook group was formed in Serbia …  now I have forgotten the name, let’s say …  Voice of an Entrepreneur or something like that.

Tana Zimmermann: Same here, Voice of an Entrepreneur.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, that’s it. And I think that group was made to Croatian models. With the same goal, actually. Tell me, how did your government react? What was the help they offered? I know that you have the worst tourist season so far. I guess it’s the same.

Tana Zimmermann: Yes, worse in the last 20, 30 years, I don’t remember, it is terrible. I don’t know the exact numbers. I think we regressed in terms of tourism.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Tourism, yes. That is what interests me. Was there any kind of help, real help from the government to entrepreneurs? Or help the tourism sector, that was definitely destroyed? I mean, we didn’t go to Croatia to the seaside.

Tana Zimmermann: Well, yes. Well, since we didn’t apply for any help because, of course, we couldn’t and wouldn’t apply at all, so I didn’t – I don’t know exactly the details at the moment. But what I do know is that this group started very – very quickly. They put a lot of pressure on the government and I believe that they are largely responsible for the fact that then, the entrepreneurs who could prove for the third, fourth and fifth month that compared to the same period last year, had a decline of more than 20% in turnover, the state co-financed dues and taxes for their employees. Somewhere above average monthly income. A little higher than the average salary, so not to say the minimum wage, but it was the amount of, I think, of 4 thousand Kuna and some average salary in Croatia is around that number. So entrepreneurs could apply for it and they got those funds. And what I remember is that they got it really on time, for the 3rd and 4th month, really practically overnight, and they dealt with bureaucracy, all of a sudden you didn’t need a stamp, and you didn’t have to go somewhere. You could complete the job with an email, and it was impossible earlier. The state administration has progressed which, I think if it wasn’t for the Coronavirus it wouldn`t progress for ten more years as we have progressed today. You could finish everything with phone call or an email. And it really helped in that lockdown period. Hairdresser, and kind of small entrepreneurs couldn`t work. Only supermarkets were open, and they had limited operating hours until 5pm. Only a limited number of customers could go in, and there were queues in front of markets, with people wearing masks. A bit like a war times. So, it helped in that sense. But once the summer season started, and we didn’t have enough money to finance it all, there were some unsatisfied people. Government helped some, but there are a lot of dependent companies. I know that people running occasional transportation services complained a lot. Transportation services like bus services, limousines and similar, the things that tourism depends on – those people didn’t have what to do. The business is at a standstill. there are no guests, there are no rides. I know that they complained a lot because they didn’t get any help from the state, as the state allocated the help based on business activity, in that sense. At first, everyone with decreased turnover could apply, and in the second round, it was based on business activity.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Do you know what is interesting for me? All of those who have fleets that suddenly serve no purpose, so there is no transport, no … why didn’t they connect with this logistics and now … as you have a driver, you have a licensed driver, you have a vehicle, let’s see if we can pay you – to pay depreciation, petrol, a man/hour rate and help that, I don’t know, some logistics center to deliver all those goods in Croatia or in Serbia. Why didn’t they do that?

Tana Zimmermann: Well, I think they do. In Croatia. I have heard that they did it. There were, for sure, for some minority cases, people who have adapted to the new situation and their business as much as they could, adapted to do so. We have Wolt and Glovo, that ride bicycles and deliver food.

Sanja Milosavljevic: It’s the same here. They exploded here.

Tana Zimmermann: They are everywhere. You can see them all over the town. And even they drive cars, as the weather is getting colder, it’s raining frequently. We see that there is a group of people doing it, but not everyone can do that. There isn’t that much demand, not in all regions. Some regions didn’t have that decrease. The decrease is around 15 – 20%. Those are the regions available for tourist with cars from Slovenia and Austria. Primarily, Istra and Kvarner. But Dubrovnik, as a premium air destination – plains didn`t operate. They have a huge decrease in numbers of visits, number of nights, everything that is important.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, and all other businesses in connection to tourism.

Tana Zimmermann: Yeah, everything that is connected with tourism. I mean, for the first time this year you could come at the first of August to Stradun in Dubrovnik and see 25 people, and it’s like, this is wonderful. And last year, on the first of August, you stood like a canned sardine and you could barely pass. So in a way it was nicer, maybe somehow sustainable tourism and so on, but of course it lacked the number of tourists, it lacked because all those people have invested over the years in new apartments, new villas, houses, hotels and now they are empty.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, it will pass. It can’t go on forever. Tell me, what would be your message? We came to the end of out conversation. What would be your message to people in Serbia, and in the world? I like what you said at the beginning when you said, work, effort, perseverance but without some false modesty. Without that, Oh, poor me, I work so much. But, work hard, make an effort i that’s it.

Tana Zimmermann: Don`t give up. I think that’s the most important thing. Because, like a thousand times, it’s enough, I can`t do it anymore, I quit, this and that. But you know, in the end all that drives you, I mean, to us, all we really do out of pleasure and most of all we love to watch how it all progresses and how it will get better now in a week and again in a week it will be even better. So I just think that whoever does something of their own, develops something, should simply believe in what they are doing, be critical to themselves. Notice when what you do maybe is not be that good, doesn`t go in the right direction and that you have to adapt something. It is very important to find the balance between believing in yourself and reality. And research well who your audience is, to whom you want to sell your product who is interested in it and balance that whole part well.

Sanja Milosavljevic: I wish that bazzar.hr develops into bazzar.com, to be, you know, to go further.

Tana Zimmermann: That is somehow our goal also. I don’t want to sound like we rushed a bit, but no. It is our goal. Our goal is to show that what we have made in Croatia we can make in some other countries. If we are lucky, we will see each other in Serbia next year. Bazzar.rs can’t wait to come to Serbia and then to some other markets and then the whole Europe. Lets stop to Europe, for now.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Great! I am so glad. I am really looking forward to that. Because, I went to your website, thinking, hm, bazzar.hr – great. But when the extension is .hr you know it is local. But when it is .com. it is wider. Thank you a lot, thank you for your time.

Tana Zimmermann: Thank you for inviting me.

Sanja Milosavljevic: I enjoyed so much. We met in Macedonia, on that Master class, and I keep telling people about your story. I mention you so often as an example of good business practice, as much as it sounds corny, you are an example of good practice. And it has to be presented. In Serbia, we have a great number of platforms that connect producers and buyers. They are small, middle and larger ones. But you are really a good example. So, thank you for accepting to talk to us.

Tana Zimmermann: You are welcome.

Sanja Milosavljević: So, this was Tana Zimmermann from Zagreb, from Croatia. I hope you enjoyed our conversation. Follow us, follow Mondopreneur on social media networks like Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, Spotify, you can find us on Google Podcasts, Apple Podcasts, on different media. And stay safe, stay in good health and see you in a week.