EP007: Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi, science girl and food chemist from Greece
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Sanja Milosavljevic: Hi, hello, Ippolyti, how are you?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Hello, I’m just fine.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Thank you for accepting my invitation to participate in this project.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: It is a pleasure, so nice talking to you.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Good people of the world, my name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I’m going to be your host today. My guest today is a very dear friend of mine. She comes from Greece, her name is Ippolyti, and she is a science girl. So, I hope you’re going to enjoy this conversation. So, Ippolyti, how do you say – kaliméra or kalispéra?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Kaliméra is good morning and kalispéra is good afternoon, so we have to say kalispéra now.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Kalispéra! Okay.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Kalispera.
Sanja Milosavljevic: How are you?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: I’m fine, trying to recover from the previous months. It was quite shocking to everybody.
Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, I know, it’s something that happened to us all, all around the world. Can you tell us something about yourself? What do you do at the moment? What is your educational background and is there any hobby or interest that you have that is standing out?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: First of all, my name – my full name – is pronounced Ippolyti. Everybody, it’s hard for everybody to pronounce, even for Greeks. I studied chemistry and then I followed my studies with a food science degree. And master of science and food science, so I consider myself to be a food chemist. And everything in my job life is surrounded by food. I used to work in my local university in several research and development projects for new product development and then I jumped to the dairy industry and worked for the quality control department in northern Greece. And after several years of working locally, I thought I had to make a small change in my life. So, this year I turned 30 years old, so I thought it would be a good idea to make some further steps in my professional life and make a new beginning. So here I am in Nicosia, the capital of the beautiful island of Cyprus, working as a food chemist in an analytical laboratory as well. And in the middle of the COVID outbreak. And this has been happening for the last six months.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Sorry, you actually moved to Nicosia at the very beginning of COVID-19.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Exactly! Exactly, exactly. I got a new job during the last days of February, so I moved to Cyprus on the 12th of this March and the following 24-48 hours, the lockdown happened.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So was it stressful for you? I mean, it can be stressful even if you’re with your parents or in your hometown or with your family. Was it stressful for you to just decide to change something in your life, to move to a different city and then you are basically shut down from the world. Was that hard and stressful for you?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Well at the very beginning I was not so stressed because I was so excited to move to Cyprus and start a new job and get training and expand my professional horizons and make new friends and so on. So, while everybody was talking about the COVID outbreaks, I was trying to avoid the noise and say “It’s okay, I will just move because I can do this right now”. And then I did it, one day before the Cyprus border closed. So I was glad that I got on this island and after this everything was closed. So, at the very beginning I was still excited and it was not a problem for me at all. But, practically, the days that came after my arrival here were really tough. Because the manager of the company called me one day after my arrival and she said that you have to stay home in quarantine because you came from another country and the government gave us – it’s in every company – strict guidelines to the people that come from other countries. So you have to stay for a couple of weeks home and just stay safe and inside and then we are going to be able to hire you. So I was quite disappointed, I said oh my god I just brought my stuff and came here, I want to work in a new environment. And then I had to stay in quarantine. I was lucky because I moved into an apartment the second day of my arrival so I thought that would be nice to take my time to settle in my new home. But with the local market lockdown and the public transport eliminated, it was impossible to settle down here the first days. Fortunately I have a good friend here in Cyprus who helped me with the groceries, but that was the first step in the first week – just some stuff and the groceries.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So, you’re a very brave young woman, I must say.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Hello, I had no choice! (laughter) I had to survive!
Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, that’s true. So, you work in a lab?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Yes, it is a limited company founded by Cyprus scientists. Transchemical and microbiological laboratory where several tests occur in food, feed, water and other environmental samples. We also participate in several research programs, nationally and internationally and of course they give advice to individual clients, they cooperate with the industries, they participate in problem solving for industries and agricultural issues. So, there are plenty of activities in that company.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Can you tell us something about the state of agricultural industry in Greece and in Cyprus if you have some information? Can you tell us what are the main products that you sell locally, are there any products that you sell worldwide? Can you tell us something more about that?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Because there is a small difference in climate between Greece and Cyprus – Cyprus is to eastern Mediterannean – so, as you can imagine during the summer months there is melting hot. So agricultural activities are not that many as in Greece. Agricultural activities have expanded in Greece in recent years, so we have companies and industries that are focused on the Mediterannean diet, olive oil industries, wineries, dairy industries – like I used to work previously. But in Cyprus the conditions are quite different because the climate is different and it is a small island, they only have one million people for the population. So there is no abundance in food industries. They have pharmaceutical industries in here, and that’s really important. And food industries food industries focusing on wine, olive oil and this kind of stuff.
Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, because in Serbia we appreciate olive oil that comes from Cyprus and we appreciate olive oil that comes from Greece. But I’m not sure that I know for any other products that come from Cyprus. I’m not sure. Maybe halloumi cheese.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Wine- halloumi cheese! So delicious. Halloumi cheese and wine as well. They have plenty of wineries here. But in Greece they have- abundance of products is bigger.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Yeah, I know. Nice, so is it boring to work in a laboratory?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ah, of course not! Every day is different. We make analytical tests for everything. Whatever you can imagine. Water, feed, food…
Sanja Milosavljevic: What kind of tests? Do you do sensory tests? Do you do tastings? Do you do…
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Analytical tests. We make- we determine chemical substances or microorganisms that occur in food. harmful or not harmful, we just like- mycotoxins are harmful substances. And they conduct microbial analyses to food and water, and of course we have to export lab reports according to the European legislation. In order to, say, if something is safe to drink or to eat. So, every day is different there and this is the interesting part of our job. And as you can imagine that was the reason that we didn’t stop working. We were working constantly during the quarantine days and I was from the lucky ones.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, you are. Okay, so can you tell us something about the state of entrepreneurship in Greece? Do you people find their companies? Is the startup ecosystem something that is developed? Can you- is there any interest in doing that kind of stuff? Or is it basically family-owned companies and then young people are just inheriting their parents’ businesses?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Well, there is one big problem in Greece in recent years. The complicated and not attractive tax system. So that’s why many young people have so many ideas, but the ground in Greece is not prosperous for investments because of that system. So, either they come to Cyprus because the tax system is much easier and more attractive to set up a business, or go to the north. So we have plenty of people that have good education and many activities in their background but they cannot invest in their country, unfortunately. This kind of thing in Cyprus is quite different because people here are more active, they start up businesses at a high rate. The national companies also set their business offices here to have a base either eastern European. So things in Cyprus are going more smooth in this area. There is a huge difference between two countries. We have the same origin, same nationality, but the business scene is totally different.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So it’s easier for you if you are from Greece, while you live in Thessaloniki and you go to Nicosia and just start your own business. Are there any kind of restrictions like you have to, I don’t know, deposit money to make insurance that you are not, I don’t know, fraud or something like that. Or is it just easy – you come from Athens orThessaloniki to Nicosia and just go to the registry and open your own company. Is it that easy?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: It is easy. I’m not that sure about the process because I-
Sanja Milosavljevic: Of course, you’re not from that-
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: But I know many people that came here to set up their own businesses, and they mention this fact – that it’s much easier in Cyprus in contrast to Greece. The guidelines are easier, the taxes are much lower. So, the practices are easier and smoother here. So, it is easier to do this, but in Greece it is very difficult.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Difficult. Well. That’s too bad because you can always have – well, from my point of view – you can have a lot of startups that are basically from agricultural business because you have crops, you have fruits, you have olives, you have-
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: That’s true, that’s true.
Sanja Milosavljevic: You can have many, many startups or small-scale businesses that do something innovative to the market and give something into the market.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Yes, we have a lot of experienced people, but the tax system can not allow small businesses to survive. So only the big businesses can survive and cope with that. And most of the big businesses that go well in our economic system in Greece are the ones who export our products.
Sanja Milosavljevic: That’s very interesting. And very sad at the same time. Well, tell me – you wanted to make a change in your life and you came to Cyprus. How often do young people change the environment? Leave Greece and go somewhere else? Is that a topic? Is that an issue for you and your people and from your generation, or is it just your case? You decided to change something in your life?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: No, most of Greek people in my generation thought of leaving Greece in the last years. Because of the economic crisis, they wanted to immigrate. So either they wanted to have some experiences abroad and come back to Greece and bring thoughts and ideas and experience and set up their lives back here, or start their lives somewhere else in order to have more opportunities mostly in the professional way of looking. So, most people that study in Greece have done something in a short or bigger period of time, such as a Master’s degree or PhD or they have worked abroad. And this is common. This is common for Greeks and I think for most Mediterraneans. So, now this is an issue and a topic to discuss about it with the COVID outbreak. Because everybody wanted to do something abroad, broaden their horizons and come back to the local community and bring new stuff and ideas. And now with the outbreak that happened the last months, they are reconsidering that. I mean, I was the lucky one who managed to reach another country and start a new life. But, I have friends that have already been abroad and they applied to come back to Greece because they wanted to with their own people. And I have friends that were planning to do a Master’s degree abroad, and now they are going to stay locally and apply to local Universities. The Cypriots are going to do this as well. And of course there’s a stigma when you come from countries with a lot of cases- COVID cases, I mean. So how easy is it for a company in northern Europe or wherever else to hire you, if you come from a country of the south or from a country where many cases and outbreaks happened the last period of time. So, most of them- there is- we are skeptical about it. And there is an introversion. They closed themselves again in their country. I mean, it took us for so many years to be open, for the Greeks, to the world and gain ideas and experiences. And now, this is really sad for us. Because we lose our opportunities to go to the world and see things.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Where do you see a place for improvement? Do you see that things can change? And what do you think, what can be improved? I know many people from Greece – young Greeks – they are wonderful persons-
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ah thank you – we are.
Sanja Milosavljevic: But they are somehow closed in their local communities. They are not willing or not open to go somewhere. And as you said, to bring new ideas to the local community. Is that something that is cultural, or…? Why is that? Why did they choose to stay somewhere? Or, there are- either they go, leave Greece and never want to return or they stay there and don’t want to improve, develop, grow, whatever. So, can you explain why is that?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Well, I think it’s a matter of education. Most people who have been educated in university degrees or went to professional schools and had the opportunity to see and meet other people and other cultures – they are more open to that kind of activity. But another issue here is that Greeks and Cypriots as well are focused on close family. I mean, we are raised like this, to take care of our own people, to stay close to the family, to continue the family businesses. It’s something like, that we have to do. We feel that we have to do it. And we enjoy it, continuing to be here. Even though we complain all the time about the Greek situation, we love to hate our country. (laughter) Of course not. And it’s really hard for us to go to the north for instance because of the cultural difference and the weather. I mean, we cannot live without the sun. I have some people in my closest environment who came back to the Mediterranean. Not just Greece, but also in the Mediterranean country because they couldn’t’ stand the darkness and the bad weather. So, there is a trend now – apart from the COVID crisis – to come back because they want to be close to their family and friends. We were raised like this. We love our people and we show it and we have to be there in every case. I think it’s part of how we grow up.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So it’s cultural. Ok. We met in summer school in Warsaw last year.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: One year ago!
Sanja Milosavljevic: Actually, it was a year ago.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: September.
Sanja Milosavljevic: September, yeah. And I had a great time there, I met some wonderful people – you as well.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ah, thank you.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Can you tell us something about design thinking and new product development. Because at this moment in time, in Serbia, we are talking about several topics. One of them is digitalization and the other one is design thinking and product development, new product development. What do you think about new product development? Is it something that is very important while developing your own business or while working in a corporation, whatever. And what do you think about design thinking? Do you use design thinking in your everyday work?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: I have to, because I have to find creative solutions all the time and problem-solving is part of my job. So, I’m trained to do that. Product development is a really important part in our lives. I can speak for the food part. In the Mediterranean, especially in Greece, of course, the investments are not that- going well in the last period of time, but we want to stay local. We want to use local products in order to develop new food with high nutritional value. There is a trend the recent years to use under-utilized crops or food-sources…
Sanja Milosavljevic: Can you explain what is under-utilized crops, for people who don’t know what…
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: For instance, during my Master studies, when I was working in my local university, we tried to make flour from acorns. We have plenty of acorn trees- oak trees, in northern Greece and they just gave them to pigs to feed them. But it’s a really nutritious crop, so we tried to make flour from it because it’s gluten-free by itself. So we were trying to enter this flour into gluten-free recipes and see the nutritional analysis or the censorial analysis if it was acceptable from gastronomers and so on. So that is a trend in Greece as well. Personalized nutrition, because we have outbreaks in nutritional eating disease – diabetes and so on.
Sanja Milosavljevic: It’s the same- sorry, it’s the same in Serbia. But I think it’s the world trend. So, yeah – it’s not something that is typical for one region or one continent, it is all over the world.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: It is, but Greece – because we love our land – we try to use our own products to create those trendy new products. I mean, we want to use olive oil in order to incorporate it in modern recipes. We want to use berries as well because of their anti-oxydants, we have an abundance of them. And that’s our scope. I mean, we just take an inside of our agricultural products that they occur only in Greece.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Do you find that to be the future of agral businesses? Like making innovative products that are locally based? Like reducing the carbon footprint because you don’t have to import some resources from other parts of the world? So, what do you think?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Yes, this is the future because after the COVID outbreak, we have to turn into our local communities. So, we have to change our mindset and use whatever we have here and grow whatever we can here, in order to be- to take care of our own selves and not import so much. So yes, that would be the next trend, I think. From globalisation to localization. That’s the opportunity after the COVID outbreak, I think, that’s something that will change our lives.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Yeah, that will be a new value, or a new normal. I wanted to ask you- yes, you haven’t answered me about design thinking. What do you think about design thinking? What does that mean to you?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Well, the only thing that I can say is organizing my thoughts and ideas while working. That is what my supervisors try to train me to do, in order to cope with all of this amount of work and find creative solutions in order to go through my routine day. So, that’s all I can think right now – because I’m still in training.
Sanja Milosavljevic: No, no, perfect – that’s enough. What do we have to be afraid of when food safety is an issue? I am a regular consumer, what should I be aware of? When I read nutritional value tables? What do I have to pay special attention to?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: It depends on the way that you look at the product. If you have diabetes you have to check the carbohydrate levels. Or if the product can be spoiled such as milk, you have to see the label and when is the last date you can consume it. You have to have a well-organized fridge. Where to put the milk or the cheese or other stuff.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Are the producers…do they always practice good practices when producing some products? Do producers always keep in mind the end consumer of the product? Or is it just the profit?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Yes, they have to. They have to. They’re obligated to. Because the European Union has put and put again and again strict guidelines and ISO standards about it. I mean, when I was working in the dairy industry, that was such a thing to follow the strict rules and the guidelines and microbial aspects were really strict. You cannot send to the market something that has spoiled bacteria in it. So yes, they have to take care of it. That’s why they have quality control laboratories in the factories where I used to work before. And if they don’t, if they are small businesses or they are farmers for instance, they can send samples to laboratories like that I’m- that I work now and check them for pesticides, antibiotics and the laboratory is going to give a report according to the European Legislation and say that, okay your sample is clean from pesticides and you can trade it, or whatever. And if not, he has to destroy that part of its production. So the legislation is really strict.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So, do small producers or famers in Greece or Cyprus, do they have to implement, I don’t know, IFS standard or any ISO standard that is dealing with food safety. Or do they just have to bring samples to the laboratory and that’s it? Do they have to implement it in their production facilities?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Yes, they have. They have. In order to set up this kind of production line, you have to be checked from some governmental services, and then if you want to export, you are obligated to follow this kind of standards.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Sorry, but even though you are a small producer or a farmer, you still have to follow those rules?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: If you want to export, of course.
Sanja Milosavljevic: And if you want to sell it locally?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Locally, only in the local community and not to an island or wherever, you have also – you are also obligated to follow the basic hygiene rules. And you- and some auditors are coming to- from governmental services to check how you work. The rules are not that strict if you want to spread just locally the products, but the basic hygiene guidelines it’s obligatory to be followed by everyone.
Sanja Milosavljevic: And good production practices.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Exactly, yes, exactly.
Sanja Milosavljevic: So, do people see challenge and opportunity in enhancing their businesses by implementing some standards and trying to export to Europe or to the rest of the world? I’m thinking of small producers, not big ones, not the factory that you worked for. But the smaller ones.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: The smaller ones, if they want to export, as I said before they have to make this kind of investment?
Sanja Milosavljevic: But do they see opportunity in that?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Yes, they see opportunity in that because they see money from that. So, most of the clients – let’s say we set up a business in Greece and we produce dairy products. If I find some clients in Sweden and the UK, the clients, in order to take – when I say clients, I mean retail stores…
Sanja Milosavljevic: Buyers, whatever, yes…
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: So they are going to us for those certificates. So firstly I have to implement those kinds of standards and then I will be able to book that client. So, that’s how the deal goes.
Sanja Milosavljevic: But do they take that opportunity?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Yes, because otherwise they cannot sell.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Of course. And does Greek government give them any kind of incentives when they want to introduce some standards, some internationally accepted standards? Do you know, do you have any information about that?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: As part of the European Union, Greece and Cyprus businesses either want to export or just go locally, they have to follow these kinds of guidelines. So, the government obligates the producers to follow these kinds of practices.
Sanja Milosavljevic: But does the government give them any kind of help, or mentoring help or help in terms of money to implement those standards that can be very expensive. But you have audits on every second or every third year, so it is very expensive.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: It is, but the EU gives financial support to some kind of businesses to young people that want to set up their own business, so part of the money goes to this kind of investment. But also there are many companies, auditing companies and organizations who also give counseling to new businesses in order to implement these kinds of standards. So it’s not that hard, it’s not that hard anymore.
Sanja Milosavljevic: I mean, it’s not hard to implement a standard, but in Serbia it can be very expensive. I mean, if you’re a small-scale- I’m not talking about large-scale businesses, I’m talking about small-scale businesses. It can be very expensive to implement and then pay audits once every two or three years.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: It is. It is in Greece as well because of the high taxes. That’s why I said before that the tax system is not attractive. Because you have to make such a huge investment in all of these things when you have to set up a business in Greece.
Sanja Milosavljevic: That’s sad because I am sure that there are many ideas and many people wanting to start their own businesses. Do you know anything about women in business? Do you have friends that run their own businesses?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: In the food sector? Not really.
Sanja Milosavljevic: No?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Not really. Maybe some friends that opened restaurants or dairy stores, that kind of businesses, can easily occur in the big cities of Greece. But businesses with production lines, no it’s too hard. Not for a woman, but for a man as well.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Is it common for a woman to inherit a family business and then just continue running some large-scale business?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Nowadays it is. Greek women in last years take forward steps to that, so I am really happy about it, because they are well educated just like men are, they have much more opportunities. It’s still not the same as with men, because companies and bosses are skeptical about hiring women, especially in my age because they get pregnant, so then they have to stay at home and they have to pay their pregnancy days off, so that’s the major reason why they prefer to hire men. This is something that we have to overcome in my country. The scene in Cyprus is better. I mean, Cypriots are a little bit open minded in that issue, I guess. As I’ve seen, as I have seen until now. But in Greece this is an issue and we have to overcome it. Maternity and professionalism. These are two terms that are not going very well together.
Sanja Milosavljevic: I know. It’s a problem. I’ve spoken to several ladies by now and the thing you said is actually something that is very common in the world. Not just for Greece and for Serbia but also, I don’t know, Hungary, Mexico or whatever. So, can you- we came to the end of our conversation. Do you have any message that you would like to send to people in Serbia and around the world?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: I have to admit that this period of time was really hard for everybody. And especially for people like me who decided to go abroad and stay lonely for a long, long period of time. The social distancing really hurt us, especially the Mediterannean people because we stopped hugging each other, we stopped touching each other and that’s a new normal for us, to stay distant. This is really weird for us, this is really bad for our psychology and mental health, so we have to find ways to overcome this issue. Stay safe, but stay together and support each other. It was really hard to cope with loneliness in foreign country and not be able to meet new people and make new friends because of this situation. But the opportunity here is to overcome all of these things and try to communicate even more than we used to do before. Technology and social media was keeping us apart in the last years as we have seen, but now it’s even worse. But we have to turn the game and come closer, communicate, online, with social media, just communicate about our feelings, about our experiences and be honest about it. So, that’s the only thing that we have to say to our end of our conversation. I have to say that we have to stay united, we have to stay together, take care of each other even through Zoom calls or Skype calls. Because that’s the most important thing, keep ourselves together and our mindset healthy and our psychology as well.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Thank you, Ippolyti, thank you so much. I really enjoyed our conversation.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Thank you for having me.
Sanja Milosavljevic: This is very, very hard for me because this year I haven’t been to Greece, and I think of Greece as my second country.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Oh my god – this is a sin! You have to come, no matter what.
Sanja Milosavljevic: But we cannot enter Greece. We also come from the- I don’t know, yellow or red country so we have many cases of COVID.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: That’s another issue here. I mean, what is going to be with tourism? I mean, countries like Greece and Cyprus whose economies are based mostly in services and touristic businesses have a huge loss. So we need people to come to Greece and Cyprus.
Sanja Milosavljevic: I know, but I cannot leave Serbia. This is kind of going to Greece. Like, talking to you is like going to Greece for me. Thank you once again.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: And thinking of the beautiful place of Halkidiki.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, of course. And many other places in Greece that I like.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Okay. So hopefully the next year the borders will be widely open and of course you are welcome to come to that beautiful island of Cyprus. Because here is like a small paradise, I am very happy to be here. So you are welcome anytime.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Oh thank you, thank you – don’t invite me twice!
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Oh, in Greek we overdo this. We invite people all the time, so it’s part of our culture as well.
Sanja Milosavljevic: That’s why I like you and love Greece. So, thank you. Thank you for your time.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: It was a pleasure.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Dear people of the world, this was my dear friend Ippolyti from Greece and Cyprus. You can always follow us on social media channels like Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn and you can always subscribe to our YouTube channel. So, until the next podcast stay safe and stay in good health.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Stay safe!
Sanja Milosavljevic: Zdravo Ipoliti, kako si?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Zdravo, dobro sam.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Hvala ti što si prihvatila moj poziv da učestvuješ u ovom projektu.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Zadovoljstvo je moje, baš mi je drago da možemo da razgovaramo.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Dobri ljudi, moje ime je Sanja Milosavljević i biću vaša voditeljka danas. Moja današnja gošća je moja draga prijateljica. Dolazi iz Grčke, zove se Ipoliti i naučnica je po zanimanju. Nadam se da ćete uživati u našem razgovoru. Ipoliti, kako se kaže –kaliméra or kalispéra?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Kaliméra znači dobro jutro a kalispéra je dobro veče, tako da sada moramo da kažemo kalispé.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Kalispéra! U redu.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Kalispera.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Kako si ti?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Dobro sam, pokušavam da se oporavim od prethodnih meseci. Bilo je iznenađenje za sve.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Znam, znam, desilo se svima, na celom svetu. Da li možeš da nam kažeš nešto o sebi? Čime se baviš u ovom trenutku? Šta si po obrazovanju i da li postoji neki hobi ili interesovanje koji se izdvajaju?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Prvo, moje ime se izgovara Ipoliti. Teško je za izgovor, čak i Grcima. Studirala sam hemiju a nastavila sam da se edukujem u oblasti nauke o hrani. Master sam nauke o hrani, tako da volim da mislim da sam hemičarka u oblasti hrane. I sve u mom radnom okruženju ima veze sa hranom. Radila sam na lokalnom univerzitetu na nekoliko istraživanja i razvojnih projekata u oblasti razvoja novih proizvoda a onda sam se prebacila u industriju mlečnih proizvoda i sektor kontrole kvaliteta u severnoj Grčkoj. I nakon nekoliko godina rada, odlučila sam da napravim malu promenu u životu. Dakle, ove godine sam napunila 30 godina i mislila sam da je dobra ideja da napredujem na profesionalnom nivou i započnem negde novo. E, evo me u Nikoziji, glavnom i predivnom gradu Kipra, radim kao hemičar za hranu u analitičkoj laboratoriji. I to u sred širenja COVID-19. A ovo se desilo u poslednjih šest meseci.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Izvini, preselila si se u Nikoziju na početku COVID-19?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Upravo. Tačno tako! Novi posao sam dobila krajem Februara, preselila sam se na Kipar 12. marta a u narednih 24-48 sati se desila izolacija.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li ti je to bilo stresno iskustvo? Mislim, to može da bude stresno i kada si sa roditeljima u svom rodnom gradu i sa svojim prijateljima. Da li je bilo stresno za tebe da odlučiš da promeniš nešto u svom životu, preseliš se u drugi grad i onda doživiš da si izolovana od ostatka sveta? Da li ti je bilo teško?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Na samom početku nisam bila pod stresom jer sam bila uzbuđena jer se selim na Kipar, počinjem novi posao, idem na treninge i proširujem svoje profesionalne horizonte i sklapam nova prijateljstva. I tako, dok su svi govorili o COVID-u, ja sam pokušavala da izbegnem buku i govorila sam sebi:” U redu je, preseliću se jer je sada prilika za to.” I to sam i uradila, dan pre nego što je Kipar zatvorio granice. Bilo mi je drago što sam stigla na ostrvo ali nakon toga sve je bilo zatvoreno. Dakle, na početku sam bila još uvek uzbuđena i nije mi predstavljalo problem. Ali, praktično, dani koji su usledili nakon mog dolaska ovde su bili stvarno teški. Pozvala me menadžerka kompanije dan nakon mog dolaska da mi kaže da moram da ostanem kod kuće u karantinu jer dolazim iz strane zemlje a vlada je propisala mere – za sve kompanije – stroge smernice za osobe koje dolaze iz inostranstva. Moraš sam da ostaneš dve nedelje kod kuće i da se čuvaš i onda ćemo moći da te zaposlimo.” Bila sam razočarana, rekla sam sebi, bože, spakovala sam sve svoje stvari i došla ovde, želim da radim u novom okruženju. A morala sam da ostanem u karantinu. Imala sam sreće jer sam se uselila u novi stan drugog dana po dolasku i mislila sam da će bit baš fino kad se smestim u novi stan. Ali lokalne radnje su bile zatvorene, javni prevoz ukinut, i bilo je nemoguće da se smestim prvih nekoliko dana. Srećom, imam dobru prijateljicu ovde na Kipru koja mi je pomogla sam namirnicama, ali to je bilo to prve nedelje, samo neke sitnice i nešto hrane.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Dakle, ti si jedna hrabra mlada žena.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Pa mislim, nisam imala izbora! (smeh) Morala sam da preživim!
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, to je istina! Dakle, radiš u laboratoriji?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Da to je doo koje su osnovali naučnici sa Kipra. Transhemijska i mikrobiološka laboratorija u kojoj se testiraju hrana, hrana za životinje, voda i drugi uzorci iz okruženja. Takođe učestvujemo u nekoliko istraživačkih programa, nacionalnih i internacionalnih i pružamo savetodavne usluge pojedincima, sarađujemo sa industrijama, učestvujemo u rešavanju problema za industrije i pitanja vezana za proljoprovredu. Ima baš dosta aktivnosti u ovoj kompaniji.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li možeš da nam kažeš nešto o stanju poljoprivredne industrije u Grčkoj i Kipru, ako imaš neke informacije? Možeš li da nam kažeš koji su to glavni proizvodi koji se prodaju na lokalu i da li postoje proizvodi koji se izvoze? Da li možeš da nam kažeš nešto više o tome?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Postoji mala razlika u klimi između Grčke i Kipra – Kipar je u istočnom Mediteranu – pa možeš da zamisliš da su leta ovde vrela. Tako da poljoprivreda nije razvijena kao u Grčkoj. Poljoprivredne aktivnosti su se proširile poslednjih godina u Grčkoj, pa imamo kompanije koje su fokusirane na mediteransku dijetu, industriju maslinovog ulja, vina, mlečne proizvode – kao firma u kojoj sam ja radila. Ali na Kipru su uslovi dosta različiti jer je klima različita a ovo je malo ostrvo, imaju samo milion stanovnika. Tako da ne postoji obilje u industriji hrane. Imaju farmaceutsku industriju koja je izuzetno važna. I industriju hrane sa fokusom na proizvodnju vina, maslinovog ulja i takvih stvari.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Znam, jer mi u Srbiji volimo ulja koja dolaze sa Kipra i iz Grčke. Ali nisam sigurna da znam za neke druge proizvode koji dolaze sa Kipra. Nisam sigurna. Možda halumi sir.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Vino, halumi sir. Baš je ukusan. Halumi sir i vino. Imaju dosta vinarija ovde. Ali u Grčkoj je veći broj proizvoda.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, znam. Lepo. A da li je dosadno raditi u laboratoriji?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Naravno da nije! Svaki dan je različit. Radimo analitičke testove za sve. Sve što možeš da zamisliš. Voda, hrana za životinje, hrana…
Sanja Milosavljevic: Koje vrste testova? Da li radite senzorne testove? Degustiranje proizvoda? Da li…
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Analitičke testove. Određujemo hemijske supstance i mikroorganizme koji se javljaju u hrani. Opasni ili bezopasni, kao što je na primer mikotoksin opasna supstanca. I onda oni sprovode mikrobiološke analize hrane i vode, i naravno, moramo da pružamo laboratorijska izveštaje koji su skladu sa zakonima EU. Kako bismo odredili da li je nešto bezbedno za piće ili ishranu. Dakle, svaki dan je različit i to je zabavni deo ovog posla. I kao što možeš da zamisliš, to je razlog zašto nismo stali sa radom. Radili smo sve vreme tokom karantina i ja sam bila jedna srećnica koja je mogla da radi.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Stvarno jesi. Da li možeš da nam kažeš nešto o stanju preduzetništva u Grčkoj? Da li ljidi jednostvano osnivaju kompanije? Da li je start-up ekosistem razvijen? Da li postoji interesovanje za tim? Ili su u pitanju samo male porodične kompanije i mladi ljudi ih nasleđuju od svojih roditelja?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Pa, postoji jedan veliki problem u Grčkoj poslednjih godina. Komplikovan i neprivlačan poreski sistem. Zato, mnogi mladi ljudi imaju mnogo ideja, ali okruženje u Grčkoj nije otvoren za investije, baš zbog tog sistema. Pa, ili dolaze na Kipar, jer je poreski sistem relaksiran i privlačniji za osnivanje biznisa, ili odlaze na sever. Imamo dosta ljudi koji imaju dobro obrazovanje i mnogo iskustva ali ne mogu da investiraju u svoju zemlju, na žalost. Na Kipru je situacija je drugačija jer su ljudi ovde aktivniji. Velika je stopa osnivanja biznisa. Nacionalne kompanije takođe otvaraju svoja predstavništva ovde jer imaju bazu u istočnoj Evropi. Na Kipru je mnogo jednostavnije na ovom polju. Velike su razlike između ove dve države. Imamo isto poreklo, istu nacionalnost, ali je poslovna scena sasvim različita.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Lakše ti je, ako si iz Grčke, da dok živiš u Solunu, odeš u Nikoziju i započneš svoj biznis. Da li postoje neka ograničenja, na primer, da moraš da položiš neki depozit kao osiguranje od prevare, na primer? Ili je baš jednostavno – dođeš iz Atine ili Soluna i odeš i samo registruješ svoju kompaniju? Da li baš tako jednostavno?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Jednostavno je. Nisam baš sigurna u sam postupak-
Sanja Milosavljevic: Naravno, jer nisi iz te-
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ali znam mnoge ljude koji dolaze ovde, otvaraju firme i napominju jednu činjenicu – mnogo je lakše na Kipru nego u Grčkoj. Smernice su jednostavnije, porezi su mnogo niži. Praksa je jednostavnija i lakša ovde. U Grčkoj je jako teško.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Teško. Pa… To je baš šteta, jer uvek možete – sa moje tačke gledišta – možete da imate start-upe koji dolaze iz poljoprivredne industrije jer imate dosta useva, voće, masline, imate-
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: To je istina.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Možete da imate mnogo start-upa ili malih biznisa koji rade nešto inovativno na tržištu i daju nešto novo tržištu.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Da, imamo dosta iskusnih ljudi, ali poreski sistem ne dozvoljava malim biznisima da prežive. Samo veliki biznisi mogu da prežive i da se bore protiv toga. A većina velikih biznisa koji dobro rade kod nas su oni koji izvoze.
Sanja Milosavljevic: To je baš interesantno. I tužno u isto vreme. Kaži mi, želela si da napraviš neku promenu u svom životu i došla si na Kipar. Koliko često mladi menjaju okruženje? Napuštaju Grčku i odlaze negde? Da li je to problem? Da li je to problem za tebe i za ljude iz tvoje generacije ili je to samo tvoj slučaj? Ti si oldučila da promeniš nešto u svom životu?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ne, većina mladih Grka je razmišljalo da napusti Grčku prošle godine. Zbog ekonomske krize su želeli da emigriraju. Pa su ili želeli da steknu iskustvo u inostranstvu i da se vrate u Grčku i donesu nove misli i ideje i iskustva i izgrade sebi život ovde ili da započnu živote negde drugde kako bi imali više mogućnosti, najviše u profesionalnom smislu. Tako da, većina koja je studirala u Grčkoj odlazi na master ili doktorske studije u inostranstvo. To je često. To je često kod Grka i mislim kod mnogih sa Mediterana. Ovo je tema ili problem o kojoj se razgovara za vreme pandemije. Svi su želeli da rade nešto u inostranstvu, prošire svoje horizonte i da se vrate kući i donesu nešto novo i nove ideje. Ali po izbijanju pandemije koja se desila poslednjih meseci, sada to dovode u pitanje. Mislim, ja sam bila srećnica koja je uspela da stigne u drugu državu i započne nov život. Ali imam i prijatelje koji su već bili u inostrantvu ali su želeli da se vrate u Grčku jer su želeli da budu među svojima. A imam i prijatelje koji su planirali da idu na master studije u inostranstvo, ali će ostati ovde i aplicirati pri lokalnim univerzitetima. I Kiprani će to isto da urade. Naravno, postoji stigma kada dolaziš iz zemalja koje imaju veliki broj zaraženih korona virusom. Koliko je jednostavno kompaniji iz severne Evrope ili gde god, da te zaposli ako dolaziš sa juga ili iz zemlje koja ima veliki broj zaraženih? Većina je- skeptična. A prisutna je i zatvorenost. Zatvaraju se u svojim zemljama. Mislim, bile su nam potrebne godine, za Grke, da se otvore, svetu, svojim idejama i iskustvima. A sada je baš tužno kod nas. Jer smo izgubili šansu da odemo u svet i vidimo nešto novo.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Gde vidiš prostor za poboljšanje? Da li neke stvari mogu da se promene? Šta misliš, šta može da se popravi? Znam mnoge mlade Grke koji su divni ljudi-
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Hvala ti, jesmo.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Ali su nekako zatvoreni u svojim lokalnim zajednicama. Nisu spremni ili otvoreni da odu negde. I kao što si rekla, da donesu nove ideje lokalnoj zajednici. Da li je to nešto što je kulturološki uslovljeno, ili…? Zašto je to tako? Zašto oslučuju da ostanu negde? Ili – ako odu, napuste Grčku, ne žele da se vrate, ili ostanu negde ali ne žele da napreduju, razvijaju se, rastu, šta god. Možeš li da objasniš zašto je to tako?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Mislim da je to pitanje obrazovanja. Većina ljudi koja se školovala na univerzitetima ili išli u stručne škole i imali šansu da vide ili upoznaju druge ljude i kulture – oni su otvoreniji za nova iskustva i aktivnosti, Drugi problem je što su Grci i Kiprani okrenuti dosta porodici. Mislim, tako smo odgajani, da vodimo računa o svojima, da ostanemo blizu porodice, da nastavljamo porodične biznise. To je nešto, što kao moramo da uradimo. Osećamo da to moramo da uradimo. I mi uživamo u tome, u ostanku ovde. Iako se žalimo sve vreme na situaciju u Grčkoj, mi volimo da mrzimo našu zemlju. (smeh) Naravno da ne. Nama je stvarno teško da odemo na sever, jer, na primer, postoje kulturološke razlike i razlika u vremenu. Misli, mi ne možemo da živimo bez sunca. Znam nekoliko ljudi iz okruženja koji su se vratili na Mediteran. Ne samo u Grčku, već u mediteranske zemlje jer nisu mogli da podnesu mrak i loše vreme. Sada postoji trend – pored kize izazvane COVID-om – da se vraćaju jer žele da budu blizu porodice i prijatelja. Tako smo odgajani. Mi volimo svoj narod, pokazujemo to i moramo da smo stalno prisutni ovde. Mislim da je to deo našeg odrastanja.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Dakle, razlike su kulturološke. U redu. Srele smo na letnjoj školi u Varšavi prošle godine.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Pre godinu dana!
Sanja Milosavljevic: Pre tačno godinu dana.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Septembar.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Septembar, da! Bilo mi je mnogo lepo tamo, upoznala sam neke divne ljude – i tebe, takođe.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: O, hvala ti.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li možeš da nam kažeš nešto o pojmu design thinking i razvoju novih proizvoda? U ovom trenutku u Srbiji, u žiži je nekoliko stvari. Jedna od njih je digitalizacija, design thinking i razvoj novih proizvoda. Šta ti misliš o razvoju novih proizvoda? Da li je to važno dok razvijaš svoj biznis ili dok radiš u nekoj korporaciji? I šta misliš o pojmu design thinking? Da li koristiš design thinking u svakodnevnom poslu?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Moram jer moram da nalazim kreativna rešenja sve vreme da rešim probleme – rešavanje problema je deo mog posla. I obučena sam da radim to. Razvoj proizvoda je važan deo naših života. Mogu da govorim sa aspekta hrane. Na Mediteranu, naročito u Grčkoj, nije bilo mnogo investicija u poslednje vreme, ali i mi želimo da ostanemo okrenuti lokalu. Želimo da koristimo lokalne proizvode kako bismo razvili nove proizvode velike nutritivne vresnosti. Postoji trend da se koriste malo iskorišćeni usevi i izvori hrane…
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li možeš da nam kažeš šta su malo iskorišćeni usevi, za ljude koji ne znaju šta je to…
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Na primer, tokom master studija, dok sam radila na lokalnom univerzitetu, pokušali smo da napravimo brašno od žira. Imamo dosta žirova u severnoj Grčkoj i samo ih dajemo svinjama kao hranu. Ali to je nutritivno bogata sirovina, pa smo pokušali da napravimo brašno od njega jer je po sebi bez glutena. Pokušali smo da uvedemo ovo brašno u recepte bez glutena i vidimo nutritivne analize ili senzorne analize, i da li bi bilo prihvatljivo za ljude iz prehrambene industrije. Tako da je to trend i u Grčkoj, takođe. Personalizovani nutritivni planovi, jer je kod nas rast oboljenja koja imaju veze sa ishranom – dijabetes i slično.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Isto je i ovde, izvini što te prekidam, isto je i u Srbiji. Ali to je i trend na svetskom nivou. Tako da da, nije nešto što je tipično za region ili kontinent, svetski je trend.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Jeste. U Grčkoj – jer volimo svoju zemlju -pokušavamo da koristimo lokalne proizvode da stvaramo te trendi nove gotove proizvode. Misim, želimo da koristimo maslinovo ulje i da ga uključimo u moderne recepte. Želimo da koristimo i bobičasto voće jer su antioksidanti, a imamo ih u izobilju. I to je naš domet. Uzimamo poljoprivredne proizvode koji postoje samo u Grčkoj.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li misliš da je to budućnost biznisa koji su u vezi sa poljoprivredom? Na primer, proizvodnja inovativnih proizvoda koji su bazirani na lokalnim sirovinama? Na primer, smanjenje karbonskog otiska jer ne moraš da uvoziš neke sirovine iz drugih delova sveta? Šta ti misliš?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Da, to jeste budućnost, jer nakon izbijanja pandemije, moramo da se okrećemo lokalnim zajednicama. Moramo da promenimo način razmišljanja i koristimo sve ono što raste ovde, jer na taj način vodimo računa o sebi i smanjujemo uvoz. Mislim da će to biti sledeći trend. Od globalnog ko lokalnom. To je šansa nakon izbijanja pandemije, to je nešto što će nam promeniti živote.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, to će biti nova vrednost ili nova normalnost. Želim da te pitam, nisi mi odgovorila na pitanje o pojmu design thinking? Šta misliš o pojmu design thinking? Šta to znači za tebe?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ono što mogu da kažem je da je to organizovanje misli i ideja dok radimo. To je ono što moj nadređeni pokušava da me obuči da radim, kako bih se izborila sa količinom rada i našla kreativne načine da ispunim dnevnu rutinu. To je sve, još uvek prolazim kroz obuku.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Ne, ne, odlično – to je dovoljno. Čega moramo da se plašimo kada je bezbednost hrane u pitanju? Ja sam običan konzument, čega treba da budem svesna? Kada čitam tablice nutritivnih vrednosti? Na šta posebno treba da obratim pažnju?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Zavisi na koji način gledaš na proizvod. Ako imaš dijabetes moraš da proveriš nivo uglljenih hidrata. A ako je proizvod kvarljiv, kao što je mleko, moraš da vidiš etiketu i datum do kog možeš da ga koristiš. Moraš da imaš dobro organizovan frižider. Gde da staviš mleko ili sir i ostale namirnice.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li se proizvođači uvek pridržavaju dobrih proizvođačkih praksi u proizvodnji? Da li proizvođači uvek imaju na umu krajnjeg potrošača? Ili se gleda samo profit?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Da, moraju. Moraju. U obavezi su. Jer je Evropska unija dala stroge smernice i ISO standarde na tu temu. Mislim, ja sam radila u industriji mlečnih proizvoda, i morali smo da pratimo stroga pravila i smernice sa mikrobiološkog aspekta koji su bili stvarno strogi. Ne možeš da pustiš u prodaju nešto što je zagađeno bakterijama. Tako da, da, moraju da vode računa o tome. Zato imaju laboratorije za kontrolu kvaliteta u fabrikama u kojima sam ja radila. A ako ih nemaju, ako su mala preduzeća ili domaćinstva, na primer, mogu da šalju uzorke u laboratorije, kao u ovo u kojoj sada radim i provere proizvode na pesticide ili antibiotike, i laboratorija im daje izveštaj u skladu sa zakonima Evropske unije koji kažu da li su uzorci u redu, da nemaju pesticide, i tek onda možeš da pustiš proizvod na tržište. A ako nisu u redu, moraš da uništiš deo proizvedenih količina. Zakoni su baš strogi.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li mali proizvođači ili farmeri iz Grčke ili sa Kipra, moraju da uvedu standarde, na primer IFS ili neki drugi ISO standard koji se odnosi na bezbednost prehrambenih proizvoda? Ili samo odnesu uzorke u laboratoriju i to je to? Da li moraju da imaju standarde uvedene u svoje proizvodne prostore?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Da, moraju. Moraju. Da bi započeo liniju proizvodnje, vladine sližbe moraju da te provere, a ako želiš da izvoziš, onda si u obavezi da poštuješ ovakvu vrstu standarda.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Izvini što te prekidam, ali iako si mali proizvođač ili farmer, i dalje moraš da poštuješ sva pravila?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ako želiš da izvoziš, naravno.
Sanja Milosavljevic: A ako želiš da prodaješ na lokalnom nivou?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Na lokalu, ili na ostrvu, šta god, moraš – u obavezi si da poštuješ osnovn pravila o higijeni. I dolaze državni revizori da provere kako radiš. Pravila nisu toliko stroga ako želiš da prodaješ na lokalnom nivou, ali osnovne smernice u smislu higijene su obavezne za sve.
Sanja Milosavljevic: I dobre proizvođačke prakse.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Tačno tako!
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li ljudi vide izazov ili priliku da kroz poboljšanje poslovanja uvođenjem nekih standarda pokušaju da izvezu proizvode u Evropu ili ostatak sveta? Mislim na male proizvođače, ne velike, ne fabrike kao one u kojima si ti radila. Mislim na male.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Mali, ako žele da izvezu, kao što sam rekla, moraju da investiraju.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Ali da li vide priliku u tome?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Da, vide priliku, jer vide novac u tome. Većina klijenata, na primer, otvore fabrike u Grčkoj i proizvode mlečne proizvode. I ako nađu klijente u Švedskoj ili UK, a kad kažem klijente, mislim na lance maloprodajnih objekata…
Sanja Milosavljevic: Kupce, da…
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Dolaze kod nas za ove sertifikate. Prvo, moram da uvedem ove standarde i tek onda mogu da se dogovaram sa klijentom. Tako to ide.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li koriste tu mogućnost?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Da, jer u suprotnom ne mogu da prodaju.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Naravno. Da li im grčka vlada daje neke podsticaje ako žele da uvedu neke standarde, neke koji su prihvaženi na svetskom nivou? Da li imaš neke informacije u vezi sa tim?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Kao deo Evropske unije, firme iz Grčke i Kipra, žele ili da izvoze ili žele da ostanu na lokalu, moraju da prate ove zakone. Država ih obavezuje da koriste ovu vrstu prakse.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li im vlada daje neku vrstu pomoći, mentorsku ili novčanu da sprovedu ove standarde koji mogu da budu skupi? Na primr, imaš revizije na svake dve ili tri godine, tako da je to skupo.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Jeste, u EU daju finansijsku pomoć nekim vrstama biznisa, mladim ljudima koji žele da pokrenu svoj posao, tako da deo novca ide na ovu vrstu investicija. Postoje mnoge kompanije, revizorke kompanije i organizacije koje pružaju savetodavne usluge novim firmama kako bi uvele ovu vrstu standarda. Nije teško, nije više tako teško.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Mislim, nije teško uvesti standard, ali u Srbiji može biti dosta skupo. Ako si baš mala firma, ne govorim o velikim. Može biti jako slupo da uvedeš standard i plaćaš reizdavanje sertifikata jednom u dve ili tri godine.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Jeste. I u Grčkoj je zbog visokih poreza. Zato ti kažem da poreski sistem nije povoljan. Jer moraš da uložiš dosta u sve ove stvari ako želiš da započneš biznis u Grčkoj.
Sanja Milosavljevic: To je tužno, jer sam sigurna da ima mnogo ideja i mnogo mladih ljudi koji žele da započnu svoje biznise. Da li znaš nešto o ženama u biznisu? Da li imaš prijateljice koje imaju svoje firme?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: U industriji hrane? Ne baš.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Ne?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Ne baš. Možda je nekoliko prijatelja otvorilo restorane ili prodavnice mlečnih proizvoda, ta vrsta posla, koji lako mogu da se nađu u velikim gradovima Grčke. Ali poslovi sa linijskom proizvodnjom, to malo teže. Ne samo za žene, već i za muškarce.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li je uobičajeno da žena nasledi porodični posao a onda samo nastavi da vodi veliki posao?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Danas jeste. Grkinje su poslednjih decenija istupile, tako da sam stvarno srećna, jer su obrazovane kao i muškarci i imaju mnogo mogućnosti. Nije isto kao za muškarce, jer su kompanije i gazde skeptični kada je zapošljavanje žena u pitanju, pogotovo za žene mojih godina jer mogu da ostanu u drugom stanju, a onda moraju da ostanu kod kuće a oni moraju da im plaćaju dok su na porodiljskom, i to je glavni razlog zašto biraju da zaposle muškarce. To je nešto što moramo da prevaziđemo u Grčkoj. Stanje na Kipru je bolje. Mislim, Kiprani su malo otvoreniji po tom pitanju, pretpostavljam. Koliko sam mogla da vidim do sada. Ali u Grčkoj je to problem i to moramo da prevaziđemo. Materinstvo i profesionalizam. To su dva termina koja ne idu zajedno baš najbolje.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Znam… To jeste problem. Razgovarala sam nekoliko žena do sada i ovo što si rekla je vrlo često na celom svetu. Ne samo u Grčkoj već i u Srbiji, ne znam, Mađarskoj, Meksiku, gde god. Stigle do kraja našeg razgovora. Da li postoji poruka koju želiš da podeliš sa ljudima u Srbiji i na svetu?
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Moram da priznam da je ovaj period stvarno težak za sve. A naročito za ljude koji su kao ja odlučili da odu u inostranstvo i bili usamljeni dugo, dugo. Društvena distanca nas stvarno pogađa, naročito za ljude sa Mediterana jer smo prestali da se grlimo, prestali da se dodirujemo i to je naša nova normalnost, da budemo na distanci. To je stvarno čudno za nas, ovo je loše u psihološkom smislu i za naše mentalno zdravlje, pa moramo da nađemo načina da prevaziđemo taj problem. Budite bezbedni, ali ostanite zajedno i podržite jedni druge. Bilo je stvarno teško boriti se sa usamljenošću u stranoj zemlji, nisam mogla da upoznajem nove ljude i sklapam nova prijateljstva zbog ove situacije. Šansa je u tome da prevaziđemo ove stvari i da pokušamo da komuniciramo još više. Tehnologija i društvene mreže su nas razdvajale poslednjih godina, kao što znamo, ali sada je oš gore. Ali moramo da obrnemo igricu i da se zbližimo, komuniciramo, onjaln, preko društvenih medija, samo da komuniciramo o našim osećanjima, o našim iskustvima i da budemo iskreni u vezi sa tim. To je jedina stvar koju mogu da kažem za kraj našeg razgovora. Moram da kažem da moramo da budemo ujedinjeni, da ostanemo zajedno, da brinemo jedni o drugima čak i preko Zoom ili Skype poziva. Jer to je najvažnija stvar, da budemo zajedno i da ostaneo zdravi i psihički.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Hvala ti Ipoliti, hvala ti mnogo. Stvarno sam uživala u našem razgovoru.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Hvala ti što si me pozvala.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Ovo je bilo baš teško za mene jer ove godine nisam bila u Grčkoj, a o Grčkoj mislim kao o svojoj drugoj domovini.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: O bože, pa to je greh! Moraš da dođeš, po svaku cenu.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Ali ne možemo da uđemo u Grčku. Dolazimo iz, ne znam, zemlje koja ima veliki broj zaraženih korona virusom.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: To je drugi problem. Mislim, šta će se desiti sa turizmom? Mislim, države kao što su Grčka ili Kipar, čije se ekonomije baziraju na turističke usluge i turizam je pretrpeo velike gubitke. Tako da su nam potrebni ljudi u Grčkoj i na Kipru.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Znam, ja ne mogu da napustim Srbiju. Ovo je neka vrsta odlaska u Grčku. Razgovor sa tobom je kao odlazak u Grčku. Hvala ti još jednom.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: I sećanje na divni Halkidiki.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Naravno! I mnoga druga mesta u Grčkoj koja volim.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: U redu. Nadam se da će sledeće godine granice biti širom otvorene i naravno da si dobro došla da dođeš na predivno ostrvo Kipar. Jer ovde je kao mali raj, stvarno sam srećna što sam ovde. Dobro došla si u svakom trenutku.
Sanja Milosavljevic: O, hvala, hvala, nemoj dva puta da me zoveš!
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: O, mi u Grčkoj preterujemo u tome. Mi pozivamo ljude stalno, i to je deo naše kulture.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Zato i volim Grčku. Tako da, hvala ti. Hvala ti na vremenu.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Zadovoljstvo je moje.
Sanja Milosavljevic: Dragi ljudi, ovo je bila moja prijateljica Ipoliti iz Grčke i sa Kipra. I ako želite, možete da nas pronađete na društvenim mrežama kao što su Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn a ako želite možete da se pretplatite na naš YouTube kanal. Do sledećeg slušanja, budite dobro i dobrog zdravlja.
Ippolyti Gkountenoudi-Eskitzi: Budite dobro!