EP046: Katarina Moškatelo, Content Creator and Travel Guide from Croatia

Sanja Milosavljević: Good day, good people, my name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I am going to be your host today. You are watching and listening to Mondopreneur podcast, a podcast dedicated to entrepreneurs of the world, and not just to them, but to all people that are interested in entrepreneurship, that maybe work in institutes or big corporations, but have entrepreneurial spirit in them. This whole project is supported by US Embassy in Belgrade, Serbia and thanks to them we can really share some great stories of some great people. My today’s guest is Katarina Moskatello. She is, I cannot say that we are colleagues, maybe I would like that, but she is one extraordinary lady with wonderful voice and she comes from Croatia. I am sure I will enjoy our conversation and I hope that you will, too. Hi, Katarina.

Katarina Moškatelo: Hi, hello, to everyone, from these 40 degrees centigrade, as I count here in Zagreb, while my friends from Croatia are all on the seaside for a long weekend. We envy them, watch their Instagram photos and drool a bit. So, here we are, doing what has to be done and we are also going to the sea. How are you? What’s the weather over there?

Sanja Milosavljević: It is also very hot here, and as we like to say in Belgrade, it is like hell, but I like it. We had a long winter and cold and rainy spring and it was enough. When it’s sunny and when the weather’s nice, everything is just fine with me, nothing is bothering me, like I am a different person when it’s sunny. Suddenly, I have more energy, everything is easy for me, and I am easy going. But, when it is cloudy, then I am also a bit blue, so I like it, and would like it to last as long as it can.

Katarina Moškatelo: What is with that interstate? When it’s either cloudy or sunny, but it’s too hot, and your head is blurry from the heat.

Sanja Milosavljević: And you are blurry, yes.

Katarina Moškatelo: A person cannot – well for me, I have to admit, with years I am becoming a meteropath. You cannot focus on work because of the heat, your movement is slower. It is simply like you cannot do a thing.

Sanja Milosavljević: I agree, when metabolism slows down. But there are the rivers Danube and Sava, and you can go to the sea easily. We need a longer drive to the sea, so there is a way, I am not complaining. Katarina, do you want to introduce yourself? To tell us – well we all know your name Katarina Moskatelo, but can you tell us, where do you come from, what is your educational background, how your education is connected to what you do today, or it has nothing to do with it, what is that you do, do you have any interesting hobbies to share with us.

Katarina Moškatelo: These are a lot of questions in one. You like to cover everything.

Sanja Milosavljević: I will remind you.

Katarina Moškatelo: It won’t be needed, I hope it won’t, but thank you. For the beginning, thanks for the invitation before I say anything else. I was really glad, I love projects like this, I love quality and interesting stories, really great. The guests that I managed to see a bit are all some inspiring people. I think that’s what we’re mostly looking for today for some inspiration. What I’m doing is actually working on my own inspiration, so I guess that’s how it happens – you know, the domino effect, so you inspire others a little bit and yourself, and it’s all somehow connected today. And who else am I, so I like to say that a person, before anything else, is not what he/she does but what is inside that person. I like to say that I am somehow a playful child forever. Half and half. Half is a playful child, half is one serious wise old woman and soul. So some combination of the two. By the way, I was born on an island, on Hvar and grew up and went to primary school and secondary school there. Why do I mention it at all, because I think it built me ​​up very, very hard and that it’s pretty important, where I actually grow up, in that kind of environment because it predetermined a lot in my later life. Somehow the road led me in the direction of Zagreb – Split – I wondered a lot. That Gemini sign – we mentioned astrology earlier – that Gemini in me is tireless and he is constantly fidgeting somewhere and he is constantly interested in something beyond the wall. So I somehow headed in the direction of Split, to study the Economy. During my studies, I came across an ad related to radio and I really wanted to actually try that job on the radio and what all that can be learned there. Well, in a way, because of my voice, the color of the voice blended well with the usefulness, people accepted me and within two weeks I learned what to do and in a way I got stuck on that radio for years. Over the next 12-13 years, the radio line-ups and cities also changed, everything somehow managed with its course, and I have to admit that at that moment I didn’t think too much about where it was heading. Not that I actually-

Sanja Milosavljević: So you were relaxed, you didn’t have anything at all, yes, you didn’t expect anything, great.

Katarina Moškatelo: Pretty much, yes. I think that throughout my life I was quite relaxed and that burden actually came some 5-6 years ago when I moved to the metropolis of Zagreb. Most people when they start doing something in the media it adds up on personal education and after college you stay in the same city. And then you build some kind of your own path, career and so on. For me, nothing went that way, for me everything is always upside down. So, actually only 5 years ago, when I was 34,35 years old, came to Zagreb to work on Antenna Zagreb actually and that opened up some completely new possibilities for me. All that time, it seemed quite interesting, because I was actually constantly interested in that contact with the microphone, it was intertwined with the choice of education and with the very opportunities that life brought to me. And that radio job. At the same time, I have been working as a tourist guide for 15 years, so there is the microphone again, these people are there again. So there was a need to record commercials, and people would say, you have a nice voice, let’s go record something. Okay, how does it work, what does it look like? Well, you think that reading those sentences is just like that, so you realize that it’s something much more and more solid. So you start educating yourself in that field in the direction of voiceover, that’s what feeds me today. Generally, what feeds me today in 2021 during the pandemic is actually my voice selling a bunch of different products in the media, on radio, television, wherever.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well now – sorry to interrupt – but you really have such a beautiful voice. So you have so much – it’s so melodious, and probably the work on the radio shaped you and you have excellent diction. So it’s an ideal combination. You have a voice that is so melodious and so pleasant that it somehow caresses you as you speak, caresses a person who listens to you and you have excellent diction.

Katarina Moškatelo: I have to interrupt you on two subjects you mentioned. First, for this melodious voice, thank you very much. I always remember some moments when I would lead a group of people to Spain, or the graduates that go on excursions to Spain, Italy and so on and I love to lead these young people because you learn everything from younger generations, especially generations who are an amazing source of knowledge and various skills. And now you can imagine how you think they will be good with everything you promised them to speak about, and then the people fall asleep. And then you turn around in the bus during the speech, you start telling them the story about Cosa Nostra and so on, you turn around and they fall asleep after three minutes. Well, it is because your voice is so beautiful, you put us to sleep, they would say. So sometimes it doesn’t make much sense when you go too long and talk to people widely, you really put your people to sleep with your voice. So, I think in the future I will have to choose something that will be able to combine the well with the useful – to put people to sleep and make money from it.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, I don’t know, it can be – if you do an ad for sleeping pills. I have no idea how to calm people down.

Katarina Moškatelo: Lullabies, for an example.

Sanja Milosavljević: Lullabies, yes. That’s nice. Well, okay, tell me-

Katarina Moškatelo: And on the other hand- say? Say, say. By the way, you – look, you have to stop me because when I go long and wide, it can be like…

Sanja Milosavljević: You know what, I like to let people talk as much as they like because that’s the freedom, I don’t need to shorten anything here – say what you want to say. I really do, and my questions are usually very short and I prefer to hear other people than me to elaborate the question for ten minutes. No, I just wanted to ask you, do you have any hobbies that are also interesting? Or is everything you do a kind of hobby?

Katarina Moškatelo: I just wanted to tell you that. Somehow it has been developed that way, in the last few years, so I went that path from the island Hvar, than Split, Zagreb, so a mix of four or five different jobs that constantly had to do with the microphone, was always, in a way, developing as a hobby. When I would go to a public speaking workshop of any kind, with any of the people where I studied and educated myself, it was like investing in myself, it’s a hobby. I enrolled in acting school at some point. It is a four-year program, but extremely interesting, creative, so it is not an academy, but something where you study acting. The systems of Stanislavski, Chekhov, Strasberg and so on, everything that can come in handy for a person if he/she is engaged in this type of work. It was a hobby for me, too. Then a new show was born, which we made last year – the year before last, so it became a kind of hobby. You know, it’s all over for me – the podcast started, the Kilometers started, they were created during the pandemic. I can’t call it my job. Yes, it takes its time every day, throughout the week and on a monthly basis when we shoot episodes, but regardless of that I still see it as a kind of hobby. So it’s a lot of hobbies, my father knows to say, but let’s focus on one thing. But I won’t do that. I think over the years I’ve learned that there are people who aren’t simply destined to do just one thing because they would wither. Like a flower without water. This dispersion in some people is very appropriate, they are sometimes called manifest generators. So you are constantly creating some new content, some new ideas, you are scattered every day on some three or four different networks, a few different jobs and it suits you indescribably. I really like the dynamics of my job and the fact that one day is one thing, another day is another, so a hobby as a hobby – my job is almost a hobby. But I love it, I can tell you that I love nature, I love to center myself in nature, definitely. I like to walk, read, all sorts of things that people normally like doing these days, all sorts of things to clean themselves from everything. I started practicing mindfulness for the last two or three years. I just felt that the dispersion is so great, but if we don’t know how to deal with it, it can really overwhelm us. And that’s where I realized, yeah, I need to stop with some things, I’ll do this more, I’ll do this less, I’ll do this like this. So, in general, I don’t like to be subject to the structure of the day or say here I don’t know on Friday, I go to training every day at five o’clock. I don’t know how to explain it. I don’t like the classical structure of the day.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, yes, well, I have that – I remember a few years ago a friend told me that I was actually a Renaissance person because I also do everything. I don’t have just one job or just one activity but, as you say I’m scattered. And I was talking to him and I said God, but I felt a little schizophrenic. I mean, sometimes it’s too much.

Katarina Moškatelo: Yes, that moment comes sometimes.

Sanja Milosavljević: And he was like, you are not a schizophrenic, you are a Renaissance person. Let’s just call it a nice name and you’ll see – it works.

Katarina Moškatelo: And you know what, I’m sorry, I’ll interrupt you for a bit. It’s great for me because today, more or less, all of us are on LinkedIn, we communicate a lot there. I think a genius network is not just for networking but really for learning and opening up some new points of view. And you notice that let’s say today, especially the younger generation, we’re talking about the ones born during the 90’s and onwards, it’s mostly people who – no one works just one job any more. And these people also, yes, but the flow of information that comes to us is terribly fast, the jobs we do are very stressful, the time in the day is unfortunately the same as 500 years ago, the day lasts as long as it lasts. And we actually burden ourselves with an indescribable amount of things in one day. For someone that fits, but for others I don’t think it fits, it’s just a condition of a person who has to feel it, so if you think you’re a schizophrenic you need to stop – or anyone, me too, anyone – I think you should stop first and think about why do you feel like that. Is it because someone else is telling us this is not good for you or is it because we really feel restless or insecure or uncomfortable or unhappy, this is the moment to know how to think, okay this is the time to come to terms with something new but we will reduce one of the five things we do, or we will arrange it in some other way, but we just need to know how to indulge ourselves and adjust. That listening to your inner self is the key.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes. To indulge and to adjust, I like that. I will note that – indulge and adjust. Well, you know what I wanted to ask you. For example, I was born in 1980, and while I was growing up, radio was that medium for us. I grew up with radio and then at some point it was slightly replaced by Sony’s walkman. And that’s it for me. And I love radio a lot and I love radio shows a lot. And I love some great DJs playing some great music. Even today I listen to the radio. I am that audio type of person. How come-

Katarina Moškatelo: Same here.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, yes, the same. And I really do – especially because I can do more things at the same time. As you said, the day lasts as long as it lasts – I can choose the content I want, I can choose the content that suits me and that I like. So where is radio today? You’re from that world. I’m someone who just consumes it on the outside. But when you look at it from the inside – where is radio today?

Katarina Moškatelo: It’s very good – I have to correct you, often, people lately, announce me as a radio host. I don’t dare call myself that way anymore. I have been for many years, so over 10 years, but I am not anymore. I haven’t been on the radio for the last 2-3 years and I kind of-

Sanja Milosavljević: You stepped out of that world, yes?

Katarina Moškatelo: I don’t want to call it – it’s not right to call myself a radio host, and-

Sanja Milosavljević: No, I didn’t even think – yes – I’m not interested from the perspective of you as a radio host but from the perspective of someone who was actually in that world. Audio.

Katarina Moškatelo: In that case, what I can tell you I definitely think – it is my huge love before anything else. So whatever I say needs to be multiplied and then divided. I grew up with radio – so there, on the island, before anything else, let me say, the television was turned on Sundays. I’ve never been attached to screens, in the last few apartments I’ve been to, it didn’t even matter to me to have a TV. When I look for apartments I don’t look for a TV set. I use content on demand and so on. I’m not really attached to it unless it’s really a great documentary, so I’ll follow something that’s topical and happening in that moment – important to me, personally. Football, for example, does not belong to that category. But radio as radio constantly followed my every step. While grandma was cooking in the very small kitchen, the radio was on. While the mother was doing something of her own the radio was on. When dad came from outside, the radio was on. Whatever happened to us, the radio was forever on. When there was no electricity during the war, we put the batteries in, we listened constantly – especially sailors, we had sailors in the family. There were some naval minutes when you would wait for a week for someone from the far sea to call on some frequency to greet their family. So you wait for days for that person – there were no phones, no cell phones, no internet, emails, nothing – you wait for that moment for this person, who has been at the sea for 6 months, no one has seen or heard from him, to leave a short message to greet the family. Here, I am shivering now. These are such strong emotions, the radio actually made a history in terms of connecting people, in terms of arranging, opening some new ones – I mean revolutions were rising, everything was happening because of the radio. Radio today is a completely different story. I think he lost his ‘Identity’ in a way today, but I think it will never die. Radio as radio. Radio as a medium is something that is eternal, it is with us. It is inconceivable that you will be driving a car in the future, so if that car is flying and you are no longer on the road, you will be listening to something in the car. I think that radio as such a medium, unlike TV, which is slowly threatened by a kind of extinction and oblivion if it does not come up with something new and different, I think that radio is something that will be eternal. However, I don’t know why we decided to sell our souls to certain formats today, I don’t think I’m a big fan of that, even though I was myself – I’m saying this from the perspective of a person who worked on radio and before the format – before the radio was formatted. Format is what decides for you – you have a clock and you decide how long, during that one hour we can talk-

Sanja Milosavljević: And only the algorithm is important – only algorithm and not something else. I am not a fan either. But it has-

Katarina Moškatelo: It has its own look, it has its own good sides. It feeds people. It brings people something. People really don’t have that time or strength or enthusiasm today, maybe listening to something with so much attention because we are – we go back to the fact that everything is connected, we are scattered – and because of that scattering we can’t sit and listen to the radio and be completely present. Mostly, I’m talking to most people today. And then, we come to the point that simply a person has too little or too much of something, and the very authentic emotion that radio once had – I think for a start, disappeared the moment people stopped calling radio. When live recording, the live broadcast disappeared, as such. Do you know where it’s still done? On smaller, smaller village radios, you know there is still a smaller environment, but let’s just say, certain types of music and other audio don’t suit me there.

Sanja Milosavljević: Of course.

Katarina Moškatelo: But it suits me incredibly well. It comes back to me, it’s so sweet to turn on the radio and hear someone selling three pieces of something. So, it’s ingenious, I want it. I want to listen because I am aware that those three things will bring someone`s lunch on the table tomorrow and so on. So you know what the fusion is about, the fusion of everything where we somehow hurt ourselves. So we desire something but we really don’t desire it. We would like this kind of emotion but we would actually kill that emotion. We wouldn’t actually sell ourselves, but we actually have to make a living from something. So we are constantly in that sort of search for balance and the same thing happened to the radio, regarding your question.

Sanja Milosavljević: It’s important to me – I still listen to the radio today, for example, Radio Belgrade or Radio 202, but before, radio was a source of serious information for me. It’s like waiting for a favorite band, to hear a song or follow the charts or listen to some shows that are educational, whatever, but that was what the internet is to kids today, it worked for me. Television no, radio yes. And then I love it and still listen to it. I even have a speaker system in the apartment in every room and if I walk from room to room I listen to the same thing in each room.

Katarina Moškatelo: Smart, smart, if I could, I would show you our little one in the kitchen, so we have a completely retro one. So small, small, you know where you spin on it like this until you find the station, it has an antenna, and I wouldn’t trade it for anything. I just love that sense of something old around me. The sense of old takes me back to a time when we kept our emotions simple and when that emotion was really worth something and when that authenticity, when it was not only preached about, but lived, that’s how it is.

Sanja Milosavljević: You said that very wisely. And now the part where I said we were colleagues – what do you think about the podcast? What is a podcast? A little before we started shooting, we commented a bit on what podcast is and so on. I am not a podcaster, I am not at all – this is not my profession at all, I am – I have my own company, I work there, I am from the food industry, this was just a wish and passion for me. And why is the podcast so popular?

Katarina Moškatelo: I don’t think – you actually said that great in the introduction, which your viewers and listeners probably already know. I think those times are over – there weren’t even those times where a person could be educated to live only by doing that. The fact that we are used to Joe Rogan making a living from it – it took Joe Rogan years and years for that to happen, and in the end, he didn’t study anywhere for a podcaster either. People simply start doing it primarily because they are driven by some general topic. I think it’s always been for any good podcast and that is that there is some clear and pure desire to want to talk and convey ideas within some interesting topic. Personally, I think it came too late to us. I mean it’s too late – I don’t know when you started listening to foreign podcasts, but in the last 15 years I’ve listened to the BBC and some scientific podcast and all sorts of things we had, economy – I really like psychology, especially psychology, which then intertwines into the business part of the story and I actually wanted to start with a podcast dedicated to psychology. However, knowing our environment and knowing the fact that when you have been on the radio for so many years, you have known about the people and what will go with the listeners, so to say. So I took a safe path, I admit. I knew the psychology podcast at that point wasn’t going to go well, it’s a pandemic, people are already down. If we start with some serious topics, it is very questionable what I will get as a result. As much as my energy, charisma can be maintained on some other level, it does not mean that it will go with the listeners. On the other hand, I thought that a podcast on the topic of psychology might actually wait and leave it to people who are experts. That would deal with the topic as experts-

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, I’m sorry to interrupt you, one of the guests at Mondopreneur was a psychotherapist here from Belgrade and it’s like – I got nice comments, people would just say hello. But when Bojana was a guest, so many people were overjoyed to have the opportunity to hear me, and I am not an expert. So we talked, she’s an expert, I’m not. And I ask her the questions, the way that would, I don’t know, an aunty at the market or an uncle on the street or someone from my environment who has no prior knowledge – I asked her the way I think it should be formulated. And then she would answer, because she already has enough experience, knowledge and knows how to do it, she gave answers that are clear, precise, understandable to people. When you have two experts talking, then you have a third expert who understands them, but, an ordinary person has a problem, he might be upset that he can’t actually follow. That episode was I don’t know, maybe it was the most watched, the most people listen to it.

Katarina Moškatelo: But, look now, Sanja. Imagine that you did every episode with the psychologist?

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, yes, I think I agree. People were- as if they were eager to hear that it’s okay not to be okay, that it’s okay to have-

Katarina Moškatelo: I think that from this perspective, as I imagined it, I think that a psychologist who talks to various people from completely different industries would do much better, who will then get an intense and quality picture and again examples, inspirations, experiences, all together, in total. It’s coming soon – I made an episode with a psychologist on that very topic of travel and what they do to us, what they do to us emotionally, why we need them so much, why we are used to it, what actually happened to us during the pandemic with these impossibilities to move and so on, what it all made of, how to deal with it and so on. That episode is coming to Kilometers soon, so I greet my team and recommend you watch it when the episode with the guest psychologist arrives. But I’m telling you at that point, when I was thinking about what to dedicate the podcast to, what to dedicate the topic to, travel, that actually drives me for years now and all that research. But talking about travel in a way where I show people pictures and talk about the architecture and history of a work I don’t think is the best way because it’s something they can google, find, watch a documentary and so on. What people need are human stories, in fact, and that’s how those Kilometers are intertwined with travel and kilometers of life, because as soon as you leave your parents’ home and pass over the home door step, you make your first kilometer, which shapes you into something. And so we kind of came into that one fusion of actual times and research and experiences and all together and that’s how Kilometers were actually born. And why are people so eager for something different today and why is there so many podcasts here and why has our podcast been built so much – which is ingenious, I welcome absolutely every idea, even every hairdresser who wants to talk with passion about why my hair is so terrible and what can I do with it, if you will tell me about it with passion, then tell me, I will listen. If you’re going to tell me about building materials because I don’t know anything about them and I’m thinking about buying an apartment and how I’m going to do it all, how am I going to manage that work, tell me, make a podcast about construction, let me hear, I want something to learn. I think the time has come for everyone who knows something about something or can convey something to someone else, that people are so eager for it, that is the first and the second we have become so much in the last 10 years an incredible boom happened, I remember you said you are born in 1980, I’m 82nd during high school – I don’t know, tell me, I didn’t have a cell phone.

Sanja Milosavljević: Of course, neither did I.

Katarina Moškatelo: So, when I look at myself for the last 15 years – from a person who doesn’t have a cell phone to a person who is thinking about what to send to Instagram, what to LinkedIn, what to Facebook, you know. What on YouTube and at what time. That’s all, it is a huge, huge range of growth, knowledge, learnings, stress, novelty, mega fusion of everything.

Sanja Milosavljević: I agree, and from a historical point of view, 15 – 20 years is nothing.

Katarina Moškatelo: Nothing!

Sanja Milosavljević: Nothing, but the moment.

Katarina Moškatelo: You get it? And then we come to that cacophony where suddenly in those 15 years we were given everything on a platter that we never even imagined, people, look, there is no more Playboy in the shop. Because, all the nudity is on the internet, what are you going to do – you are not going to turn pages anymore, of course. It is absolutely-

Sanja Milosavljević: I’m sorry, I thought it was because of the ecology, as we will no longer print, not to pollute the environment.

Katarina Moškatelo: Yes, yes, so absolutely from the instructions on how to repair a car, setting the AC, psychological topics, anything – everything is there. So absolutely everything is on the Internet. On the one hand, it is too much for people and too little on the other. Well, everything is very superficial, everything is in a short format. More or less. Because people like the short format because of the time consumption, what we mentioned a moment ago and for the radio. You simply don’t – you can’t invent time you don’t have, and you want to consume the content. And in that kind of ocean of ​​everything, I think that desire to create podcasts was born. Look at podcasters, I like to call them real podcasters, I think they are people who don’t limit their podcasts to an hour or two like I do sometimes, it’s something where you go with the flow. So when you turn on the mic and it lasts for three hours, then that’s the end of the podcast. Because in fact a certain topic that is talked about so spontaneously and it develops so much, it is the conversation that develops that it does not have – of course it has its own structure but there is no limit-

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, you see I also have that time limit for one simple reason that`s just that – there is so much content, you need to hold someone’s attention for a very long time, but to actually talk about some things, it’s like in everyday life, if it’s under an hour, two, three, until it is searched out, until every stone is turned, until every corner is searched, you have done nothing special. But, like me, I have this specific topic, I have women in focus and it’s great for me that now maybe some girl, woman, young woman will hear you how you got to the podcast from the radio, and thinks like, hm, maybe I could do it. I have more general topics, rather than some daily or very specific ones.

Katarina Moškatelo: But it’s generally interesting. Because let’s say you have noticed, people tell you that they may not have time – to watch the whole episode or listen, that they can’t find the time. It often happens to me, as if I could be at least shorter. But people, I am too short- in terms of podcast duration, I am too short!

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, it’s actually too short.

Katarina Moškatelo: That it is actually very short and that I am sometimes so afraid that it is superficial, that we went to the superficiality that lasts about 45 minutes because people can’t ask everything that I would like to ask, which I think each of these individuals deserves to tell about themselves, you can’t actually even provide for, because you’re limited.

Sanja Milosavljević: I know, those are my challenges, too. They really are. And that’s what I constantly think about and when I think about the next guest and what I would ask him or her then I see that it is really something so specific, that there are two or three topics and I would last for 10-15 minutes, in a way, maybe enough to go a little deeper, not just to scratch the surface and move on.

Katarina Moškatelo: Well that’s it. Today we are all trying to do as much, out of the rush. I’m such a character that it often happened to me that I just scratched something and then later, it’s not that you have a guilty conscience, but I’d rather dedicate myself to it briefly, you know. That’s why the dispersion from the beginning – it’s great, you just need to organize it well to go a little deeper somewhere, because otherwise, what are we all going to do at the upper level, the upper level is crowded.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, and I would ask you something, I was thinking about that this morning, for example. I constantly see those ads on Facebook and Instagram, visual storytelling, how to become a perfect visual storyteller and so on, and I am, intimately, personally, I am for that audio storytelling. I like to hear- okay a picture speaks more than 1000 words but I like someone to tell me- I like to hear exactly what you just said about travelling, I like to hear that someone really ate some super greasy pie somewhere in Serbia, Montenegro or Macedonia. So, I need that. Will that change or will we still remain those visual types and then visual media will always have primacy over audio? What do you think about that?

Katarina Moškatelo:  I like it that you see me as a Nostradamus, but I can`t talk…

Sanja Milosavljević: I cannot say. I cannot reveal, yes.

Katarina Moškatelo: I can’t answer that question, because I’d like to know that honestly, too. Storytelling as such is something that is wonderful. And I think we need to dedicate ourselves to that. I warmly recommend it to all those who are struggling with how to convey a certain story, how to intrigue someone, whether you are writing or talking, or doing some visual content, Udemy- you know about Udemy application, platform? Well, at Udemy you have really ingenious courses of all kinds, so give yourself a little time, explore, take something and you won’t lose anything special except a few dollars. In some cases, you learn something new, because it is so useful, so ingenious and we can get so much knowledge that we can use every day. And what will we survive and in what form, I think I would dare to say that what holds the water, will survive. Be it video, be it audio. I think it’s going in that direction. Here I am really thinking about what I will do with Kilometers and whether we will take a break soon in this season. Because some new ideas are born and it’s all interesting to me – you start with one project and through that project in a year or two you learn something, you understand something and suddenly some completely new doors open. So whatever we start doing, it doesn’t mean that’s the end, that’s the ending point. We will develop both within that project and within something else, it is important that we do not limit ourselves. It’s the same with storytelling, it’s important that we don’t limit ourselves. That what we want to convey, we find the best possible way to convey it. And whether it will be an audio form in the end, a video form, whether we will write, whether we will hang it on the streets, print it, it doesn’t matter anyway, I think it’s important only to find the target audience.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, that is the beginning and the end in fact. Well, it is not the end, it is the beginning. You want to tell us what your last year looked like? You know, from the perspective that there is no movement, that we are suddenly limited to 4 walls and from the perspective of that very voiceover because it still means going to the studio, working with a large number of people and what did it look like to you? I mean-

Katarina Moškatelo: Well, you see, for me – I really don’t know. It’s just like that for me – I’m lucky that I often think spontaneously without much preparation, a few steps ahead. So it was with that video CV I made-

Sanja Milosavljević: Which is great.

Katarina Moškatelo: But don’t watch at the old one! Please. Watch the newer one, from three years ago, although it is already old, it is time for a new one. Thank you very much. It came out of the playing a bit, after the dismissal from the radio, I enrolled the acting classes, I sat down with an acting teacher who is a wonderful, wonderful drama pedagogue and I asked her, I just made something, I really like it, what do you think about that and I said- it’s a little silly of me to tell people like, I’m working on the radio and I’m a great radio host. And she told me that what I have said, I didn’t tell anyone that I’m great at this and that, I said that I’ve been doing something for many years, I’ve been doing something else for many years now. The person will judge for themselves whether they want you, whether they see you within a project or not. So, you have to dare. That is the key thing. It was the same for me during the pandemic. In fact, I always dare to do something, at least that’s what people around me say. It all seems to me somehow – one should dare to do something. You have to play and see what will happen. I don’t care at all what someone will say, I think I left that way of thinking that while I was still on island, because when you live in a small town – I lived in a village of 300 people. Every day, my mother and father would tell me: What people would say. It`s a doctrine. It’s intravenous to me.

Sanja Milosavljević: We are all, more or less, we are the same. That is-

Katarina Moškatelo: Well, all those who went through that – well, not all, but the majority who went through that will understand very well. And then at some point you realize okay now it matters to me or it doesn’t matter to me. Beware, we can never leave something that is very deep in ourselves from the system, something that is-

Sanja Milosavljević: So deep.

Katarina Moškatelo: Absolutely. But what can be done, we can learn to live with it and we can use it for our own good, actually. And that’s what I did in terms of work, and that video CV and to go back to that pandemic, so it didn’t hurt me because I made a home studio, because I worked in parallel coaching people. I do preparations for public speeches with people that are nervous, insecure – they are not sure how to either exhibit or present something and they are struggling with something I am familiar with and is from my domain that I have fought with and studied. If I can help them, I will help. If it is already a situation for a phonetician, a situation for a psychologist at some point, then I leave things to the people I work with, but in principle that is what I was working on more during the pandemic. I was still recording voice overs. Carefree retailers weren’t out of work so things in the shops were being sold, which means they were being advertised, which means I had work to do, thank God, so it’s okay. On the third side – Kilometers were created. It started – so the pandemic and lockdown first started in the third month and I started with this in the third month. I did create it to some extent and did some part of the strategy two months earlier, but what happened, happened and it was ok. What to do at that point, to talk about travel when no one is going anywhere – we will talk about that. But no one is going anywhere. That’s why we’ll talk about that. But it gets on people’s nerves because no one is going anywhere. That’s why. We will create feel good content – we will talk to people about what pandemic has brought them in a way, what they have learned through it. Why not? So we just changed our perspective. We can’t travel with a bunch of agencies and things like that, but we can do the latter. So, in a way, I took advantage of the pandemic. At the same time, it was extremely emotionally demanding. Last year, my father was really bad in that whole story – he was in the hospital, so we couldn’t reach him for a month, visits were forbidden, so in away – we managed to say goodbye to him and to say goodbye on time, I managed to be in Otok earlier, because as a freelancer, I have time. You know, you have a period of 2 weeks where nothing special happens – no conferences, no events that I moderate, I can always record in advance, because I have a travel microphone with me, so … in a way I managed to organize my life and luckily that was the case then, because I can go wherever I want. I managed to go to Otok a little bit earlier before my dad had a stroke, so we supported each other, played games, didn’t get angry until the evening and quarreled like we always quarrel because my life is completely incomprehensible to him. He wanted me to work in a bank and I persistently explained that it was not for me and so on, but in general, we somehow survived that last year. I am the fourth, there are four of us brothers and sisters, so this whole farewell without a single living soul, only the four of us with my mother was, everything put together was so unreal and that all year, everything it brought to us, and then another movement, I moved in with my boyfriend who lives a completely different lifestyle than I do, and so many challenges, so many amazing things. So I can tell you, when you asked how my last year was, it was like some brutal rollercoaster. I don’t know if I would take a ticket and say: Hey, I will have another ride! Or I would say: Give me a break, please. I’m dizzy. That’s about my last year.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, OK. I mean, I’m sorry – I have a similar experience but it happened a few years ago and I know how painful it is. I know, in general, how much it requires for a person to calm down, withdraw, think, and regroup and so on. I’m so sorry.

Katarina Moškatelo: Okay, but we are rationalizing, it’s all life and it’s completely normal, you just need to know how to mourn and understand it that way.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, sure. But the moment it happens to you, you are never ready for it and then that shock of the first moment, until time passes, until it calms down a bit.

Katarina Moškatelo: Okay, but it’s like those earthquakes, here with us. I don’t know, maybe someone will say Jesus, crazy women, but that’s the way it is – where neither death nor earthquakes nor anything – it’s all life. I’m not dramatizing it. I am much more tormented and tormented by some everyday injustice when I see a man who does not have something and deserved it or should have got it or a person who has to go through a certain type of violence and did not deserve it and has no rights and cannot get away. Things like that hurt me. And whether it will shake or not, we will die or we will be born, it’s a circle of life.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, it’s a circle of life. Just like that. That is what is happening, has happened, is happening and will happen. There is nothing – we can’t do anything. We can’t intervene, we can’t do anything about it.

Katarina Moškatelo: That’s right. I am only interested in things where I can intervene.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, so came to an end of our conversation. We even exceeded those 40 minutes.

Katarina Moškatelo: You see, I didn’t say the half I wanted. You asked me about a literature-

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes. Can you recommend something to us, because it’s obvious to me that you work on yourself a lot and read, research and so on. What would you recommend us to read? Or to listen?

Katarina Moškatelo: Yes, what I listen… That’s where I should focus now to say what all I love to listen to. Jamil has a great podcast, find it if you can, but other than that you have great ones – you know what I’m reading now, you wouldn’t believe it. Before anything, there is always some kind of education, considering that I do those public speaking workshops and that I work with people privately – and I need that. So every time at every new conference, when I go out in front of people, I learn something new. Either it is a new topic about which I know nothing or there are completely new technical conditions about which I also know nothing. I am not a television child, I am a radio child, so everything in front of the camera is a challenge for me. And therefore more exciting, I kind of like it. So, I don’t know, I have a great one from Emma Sargent and Tim Fearon How to Talk to Everyone. For example, a great book that you can learn a little more about how to listen. Because when we feel insecure among people who may know something more than us at some point, or we have not encountered something so far, and so on, especially through entrepreneurship. We find ourselves in these situations all the time, we constantly face some challenges because we are ourselves and accountants and CEOs and employees and administrative assistants and we are all that at the same time. You can literally find strategies for various situations here. It’s ingenious. The Power of a Successful Presentation was written by Sasa Petar and Frank Petar – a short booklet, but it comes in handy format, it is ingenious. The Power of Persuasion, something she did, the book written by Mirela Španjović-Marković from Twitter communications. She usually does a lot of workshops in Zagreb, she wrote a genius book. So the Power of Persuasion is a genius book. There are a lot of NLPs there, I don’t know how many of you work in NLP, and it’s very interesting to me. NLP is like any method – you choose whether to use it in the direction of manipulation for something negative or for something good and quality. It has everything, the Art of Public Speaking by Marijeta Matijaš, and yes – and the Excellent Communication Skills of Verbal and Nonverbal Persuasive Techniques that Antolović and Siličić did is just such a good and interesting book. That is some science literature. And for the very end, before I greet everyone – evergreen, which I think everyone should read, these are Conversations with God, which Walch wrote. He is a man who has never believed in anything in his life. And the way he discovered some new things, mostly interesting, very interesting, for discussion and for a whole new podcast and a new topic.

Sanja Milosavljević: For one series, not just for one episode but for the whole series. Well, thank you very much-

Katarina Moškatelo: I told you what I have managed to say.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well I know, but we are limited with time. Thank you so much for accepting, for taking the time, to share your time we all miss, for sharing with us your story and some tips. And for recommending us some nice books to read. Really, thank you. I really enjoyed it. I knew I was going to enjoy it because I listened to what you were doing, Kilometers and I knew I was going to enjoy it for sure and I know people will enjoy it, too.

Katarina Moškatelo: I hope they will, with the fact that it is a small percentage, it is 5% of some common story. Anything that people are interested in in general from the things we do can be found on the Cloud and if they want to get in touch, if they need some advice I also work online with people. Feel free to contact us. You can visit website www.moskatello.eu, there is an email if I can help you with something or in the end, of course, it’s always there, it’s something that is done on a weekly basis, Kilometers- Kilometers come as dessert. While there is dessert, use it and enjoy.

Sanja Milosavljević: Wonderful. Thank you.

Katarina Moškatelo: Thank you very much and thank you for actually doing such a beautiful and interesting thing and different from others. Cross my fingers for it to last.

Sanja Milosavljević: Thank you. Good people, you were listening and watching the Mondopreneur podcast. You can always follow us on social networks such as Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, you can subscribe to our YouTube channel. Just type Mondopreneur. Be good and in good health and see you in a week.

Sanja Milosavljević: Dobar dan, dobri ljudi, moje ime je Sanja Milosavljević i ja ću biti vaša voditeljka danas. Vi gledate i slušate Mondopreneur, to je podkast koji je posvećen preduzetnicima i preduzetnicama na celom svetu i ne samo njima nego i svim ljudima koji su zainteresovani za temu preduzetništva, koji možda rade u nekim institucijama ili u nekim velikim korporacijama ali imaju taj preduzetnički duh u sebi. I ceo ovaj projekat podržava američka ambasada u Beogradu u Srbiji i zahvaljujući njima mi stvarno možemo da podelimo neke super interesantne priče nekih fenomenalnih ljudi. I moja današnja gošća je Katarina Moškatelo. To je jedna- mislim, ja ne mogu da kažem da smo koleginice to bih ja možda volela da budemo, ali jedna izuzetna dama i izuzetnog glasa koja nam dolazi iz Hrvatske. Ja sam sigurna da ću uživati u našem razgovoru a nadam se da ćete i vi. Katarina, zdravo. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Zdravo, ćao, pozdrav svima za početak sa vrućih, vrućih 40 stupnjeva, dakle ja otprilike brojim trenutno u Zagrebu dok se za vreme produženog vikenda ekipa u Hrvatskoj spustila na more. Zavidimo im, gledamo instagram fotke i ostale fotke na mrežama i onako cure nam sline lagano. Ali evo, ne damo se, odrađujemo što moramo još napraviti pa se spuštamo do more i mi. Kako ste? Kako je tamo? 

Sanja Milosavljević: E, kod nas je isto jako toplo i što bi mi u Beogradu volimo da kažemo pakao i meni to zapravo prija. Zato što smo stvarno imali dugu zimu i hladno kišovito proleće i aman više. Meni kad je sunčano i kad je lepo vreme meni je sve potaman ja ništa ne smeta, kao da sam druga osoba kad je napolju sunčano. Odmah mi je nešto, odmah imam više energije, odmah mi je sve lako, sve može, onda sam easygoing. Ovako kad je tmurno onda sam i ja malo tmurna tako da ja volim to i daj da što duže traje. 

Katarina Moškatelo: A šta je sa onom međusredinom? Nit je tmurno, nit je lepo sunčano nego je stvarno prevruće pa ti je tmurno u glavi od vrućine. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa ti je tmurno- da. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Ne može se čovek zapravo- ja barem, moram priznati sa godinama, postajem meteoropata. Ne možeš se fokusirati na sve od posla što imaš od te silne vrućine si slabije pokretan. Jednostavno ne da ti se. 

Sanja Milosavljević: To jeste ono malo se uspori metabolizam slažem se. Ali zato su tu ne znam Sava, Dunav, vi bar možete do mora da siđete ovako. Nama treba ipak malo duža vožnja do mora tako da ispravi se to, ja se ne bunim. Katarina, hoćeš da nam se predstaviš? Da nam kažeš to- sad svi znamo da si Katarina Moškatelo ali na primer odakle si, šta si po obrazovanju, na koji način to tvoje obrazovanje ima veze sa onim čime se danas baviš ili nema nikakve veze, da nam kažeš šta je to što radiš danas, šta su to sve lepe stvari kojima se baviš i ako imaš neki interesantan hobi da podeliš sa nama. 

Katarina Moškatelo: U ovo je puno pitanja u jednom pitanju. Konkretno, voliš obuhvatiti. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Podsetiću te. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Neće trebati, nadam se da neće trebati, ali hvala ti. Za početak hvala na pozivu pre bilo čega ostalog. Baš mi je bilo drago, volim ovakve projekte, volim kvalitetne i zanimljive priče, baš stvarno super. Sugovornici ono što sam stigla prelistati malo su sve neki inspirativni ljudi. Mislim da je to ono što mahom danas tražimo sve neke inspiracije. Ono što ja radim je zapravo radim na vlastitoj inspiraciji pa valjda tako nekako se dogodi- znaš, domino efekat pa malo inspiriraš i druge malo sebe i sve je to nekako danas povezano. A tko sam inače, pa ja volim reći da osoba pre bilo čega ostalog nije ono čime se bavi već ono što jest stvarno iznutra. Ja volim reći da sam nekako zaigrano dete forever. Pola-pola. Pola je zaigrano dete, pola je jedna ozbiljna mudra stara žena i duša. Tako da neka kombinacija to dvoje. Inače, sam se rodila na Otoku, na Hvaru i rasla dolje išla u osnovnu školu, u srednju školu. Zašto to spominjem uopće, zato što mislim da me je jako, jako izgradilo i da je prilično važno bilo gdje ja zapravo odrastam u kakvoj sredini jer ona je predodredila štošta u mom kasnijem životu. Nekako me put namirio u smjeru prvo Zagreb pa Split – dosta sam se tražila. Taj blizanac – pomenuli smo ranije astrologiju – taj blizanac u meni neumoran je i stalno zvrka negde i stalno ga nešto još više tamo iza zidića zanima. Tako da sam nekako krenula u smeru Splita, ekonomije. Za vreme tog ekonomskog fakulteta sam naletela na jedan oglas vezan za radio i jako sam htela zapravo iskušati taj posao na radiju i što se to sve tamo može izučiti. Pa nekako zbog glasa, boje glasa se spojilo ugodno sa korisnim, ljudi su me primili u principu u roku od dva tjedna sam naučila što mi je činiti i nekako sam zapela na tom radiju godinama. Idućih 12-13 godina menjale su se i redijske postave i gradovi, sve se nekako slagalo svojim tokom a da ja u tom trenutku moram priznati nisam previše razmišljala kud to vodi. Ni što ja zapravo-

Sanja Milosavljević: Znači bila si rasterećena uopšte nisi imala, da, nisi ništa ni očekivala ni učitavala, super. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Prilično, da. Mislim da sam kroz celi život bila prilično rasterećena da je nekakav pokušaj opterećenja zapravo došao pre nekih 5-6 godina kad sam se doselila u metropolu u Zagreb. Većina ljudi kad počinje radit nešto u medijima to se nadoveže na lično obrazovanje i nakon fakulteta ostajete u gradu u kom jeste najčešće. I tu onda gradite nekakav svoj put, karijeru i tako dalje. Kod mene je to ništa nije išlo tim putem, kod mene je sve uvek nešto naopačke. Tako da sam zapravo tek pre 5 godina sa kojih 34-5 sam došla u Zagreb raditi na Antenu Zagreb zapravo i to mi je otvorilo neke potpuno nove mogućnosti. Sav taj put je izgledao prilično zanimljivo, što je mene zapravo stalno zanimao taj doticaj sa mikrofonom se isprepleo i sa izborom obrazovanja a i sa samim prilikama koje je život doneo. Sa tim radijskim poslom. Paralelno poslednjih 15 godina radim i kao turistički vodič isto tako da opet je taj mikrofon, opet su ti ljudi tu. Pa su se pojavile potrebe za snimanjem reklama i to onako ej dobar ti je glas idemo nešto snimit. Okej, kako se to radi, kako to izgleda? Pa misliš da je to iščitavanje onih rečenica tek tako pa shvatiš da je to nešto puno više i konkretnije. Pa se kreneš educirati na tom polju u smeru voiceovera, to je ono što mi- što me danas hrani. Načelo ono što me danas te 2021. u vreme pandemije hrani je zapravo moj glas koji prodaje hrpu različitih proizvoda u medijima, na radiju, televiziji, gde god. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Ne al sad – izvini što te prekidam – al ti stvarno imaš tako lep glas. Znači ti toliko- to je toliko milozvučno, pritom verovatno te rad na radiju izveštio i imaš odličnu dikciju. Tako da to je idealan spoj. Ti imaš neki glas koji je tako milozvučan i tako prija nekako miluje te dok priča, miluje dok te čovek sluša a imaš odličnu dikciju.

Katarina Moškatelo: Imam dva upada sad na temu ovog što si spomenula. Prvo ovo milozvučno hvala ti puno. Uvek se podsetim na neke trenutke kada recimo pičiš sa ekipom za Španjolsku često su ljudi koje sam vodila ili maturalci naše ekskurzije koji kreću za Španiju, Italiju i tako dalje i ja obožavam voditi te mlade ljude jer svašta nešto naučiš od mlađih generacija, osobito generacija koje su neverovatan izvor znanja i nekih raznih veština. I sad reicmo zamisliš kako će njima isto tako pasat svašta nešto što si im obećao, odlučio im ispričati i onda ekipa zaspi. I onda se u busu okreneš u toku priče- ti kreneš ono o Kozi Nostri pa nadalje, okreneš se a ekipa spava nakon tri minuta. Pa kao al kad ti je tako lep glas, uspavala si nas. Znači nekad nema baš nekog smisla kad kreneš nadugo i naširoko pričati ljude stvarno uspavaš sa glasom. Tako da mislim da ću morati u budućnosti izabrat nešto što će moći spojiti ugodno sa korisnim – da uspavljujem ljude i zarađujem od toga. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa ne znam, to mogu da budu- da radiš reklamu za tablete za spavanje. Nemam pojma ono, za smirenje. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Uspavanke, recimo.

Sanja Milosavljević: Uspavanke, joj da. To je lepo. Pa dobro- reci

Katarina Moškatelo: I s druge strane- reci? Reci, reci. Ja ti inače- gledaj, moraš me zaustaviti jer ja kad krenem na dugo i na široko to ti može biti onako…

Sanja Milosavljević: Znaš šta, ja volim da puštam ljude da pričaju na dugo i široko zato što to je ta sloboda, ja nemam tu šta da kratim – kaži ono što hoćeš da kažeš. Ja stvarno i pitanja su mi najčešće jako kratka i više volim da čujem druge ljude nego kao ja sad elaboriram pitanje na deset minuta. Ne, nego sam htela još da te pitam, jel imaš neki hobi koji je ovako interesantan? Ili ti je sve što radiš neka vrsta hobija?

Katarina Moškatelo: Taman sam ti htela reći. Nekako se to iskreiralo poslednjih nekoliko godina, znači sam taj put od Otoka, Hvara, preko Splita, Zagreba, pa miks četiri pet raznih poslova koji su konstantno imali veze sa mikrofonom su se nekako uvek razvijali kao pa čak svojevrstan hobi. Kad bih krenula ne znam na radionicu javnog nastupa bilo koje vrste, kod bilo koga od ljudi gde sam se učila i educirala se meni je to bilo kao ha ulažem u sebe, to je hobi. Upisala sam glumu u nekom trenutku, to je četvorogodišnji program ali izrazito zanimljiv, kreativan, dakle nije akademija već je nešto gde se proučava. Sistemi Stanislavskog, Čehova, Strazberga i tako dalje, sve nešto što može osobi dobro da dođe ukoliko se bavi ovakvim nekim tipom posla. Onda mi je i to bio kao hobi. Onda se iz toga izrodila nova predstava koju smo napravili prošle- pretprošle godine pa je i to postao nekakav hobi. Znaš, sve mi je- krenuo je podkast, krenuli su Kilometri, nastali su u vreme pandemije. Ne mogu nazvati da mi je to posao. Je, on uzima svoje vreme tokom svakog dana, tokom celog tijedna i na mjesečnoj razmeri kad snimamo epizode, ali neovisno o tome opet ga doživljavam kao svojevrstan hobi. Tako da puno je to hobija zna moj stari reć al daj se fokusiraj na jedno. Al nećemo mi tako. Ali mislim da sam s godinama naučila da postoje ljudi koji nisu jednostavno predodređeni da rade samo jednu stvar jer bi usahnuli. Ko cvjet bez vode. Ta raspršenost kod nekih ljudi itekako odgovara zovu se to nekad manifestatorski generatori. Znači konstantno stvaraš neki nov sadržaj, neke nove ideje, svakodnevno si raspršen na neke tri četiri različitih mreža, nekoliko različitih poslova i to ti neopisivo paše. Ja jako volim dinamiku tog mog posla i to što je jedan dan jedno, drugi dan drugo, tako da hobi kao hobi – posao mi je skoro pa hobi. Ali volim, mogu ti reći da volim prirodu, volim se centrirat u prirodi, definitivno. Volim šetati, čitati, svašta nešto što ljudi inače vole danas svašta nešto da se pročiste od svega zajedno. Počela sam recimo se malo baviti mindfulness-om poslednje dve tri godine baš sam osjetila da ta ista raspršenost koliko je sjajna, ako ne znamo njom baratati ona nas baš može obahat. I tu sam skužila aha treba s nekim stvarima stati na loptu, ovo ćemo raditi više ovo ćemo radit manje ovo ću ovako. Tako da načelno ne volim patit od neke strukture dana ili reći evo ja u petak ne znam, svaki dan u pet idem na trening. Ne volim to, kako to objasnit. Ne volim klasičnu strukturu dana. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, da, pa dobro to ima- ja se sećam pre nekoliko godina mi je jedan prijatelj rekao kako sam ja zapravo renesansna ličnost jer ja isto tako svašta nešto radim. Nemam samo jedan posao ili samo jednu aktivnost nego sad tu tako što ti kažeš raspršena sam. I ja sad tu razgovaram sa njim i kažem bože al ja se osećam malo šizofreno. Mislim, neki put je previše. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Da, da, dođe taj tren ono kao. 

Sanja Milosavljević: A on, nisi ti šizofrena, ti si renesansna ličnost. Kao nazovimo to samo lepim imenom i videćeš da to- da radi.

Katarina Moškatelo: A znaš šta, baš- oprosti, uleteću ti kratko s tim. Super mi je to jer danas evo na LinkedInu smo više manje svi, puno komuniciramo tamo. Mislim da je genijalna mreža ne samo za networking nego stvarno za učenje i otvaranje nekakvih novih vidika. I primjetiš da recimo danas pogotovo mlađe generacije pričamo sad ove 90-te pa nadalje, to su mahom ljudi koji- nitko se ne bavi samo jednom stvari više. I to su ljudi da ali dotok informacija koji dolazi do nas užasno je brz, poslovi kojima se bavimo jako su stresni, vremena je u danu nažalost jednako kao i pre 500 godina, dan traje koliko traje. I mi smo zapravo nakrcali neopisivo puno stvari u danu. Nekome paše, nekome ne mislim da je to samo stanje osoba koja mora osetiti tako da to kad pomisliš da si šizofrena treba samo- ili bilo tko, ja isto, bilo tko – mislim da treba prvo stati i razmisliti zašto. Da li je to zato što nam neko drugi govori ovo ti nije dobro ili je to zato što se mi stvarno osećamo nemirno ili nesigurno ili nelagodno ili nesrećno, to je onaj tren gde treba znat razmislit aha ovo je vreme za svićanje na neku novu stvar ali ćemo umanjit od pet stvari jednu ili ćemo na neki drugi način rasporedit, ali samo se treba znati ugoditi i prilagoditi. Ono slušanje sebe iznutra, to je ključ.

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, da. Ugoditi i prilagoditi, to mi se sviđa. To ću da zabeležim – ugoditi i prilagoditi. E a el znaš šta sam htela da te pitam. Na primer, ja sam rođena 1980. i sad ja kad sam rasla, nama je radio bio taj medij. Ja sam rasla uz radio i onda u nekom trenutku ga je malo zamenio Sonijev vokmen. I to je za mene to. I ja mnogo volim radio i mnogo volim radijske emisije. I ne znam iako je neki super DJ koji pušta neku sjajnu muziku. I dan danas slušam radio ja sam taj audio tip. E kako to- 

Katarina Moškatelo: Isto.

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, da, isto. I stvarno mi je- pogotovo što onda mogu da radim više stvari u isto vreme. Što ti kažeš dan traje koliko traje mogu da dobijem- da biram sadržaj koji hoću, biram sadržaj koji mi odgovara i to – prija mi. Pa gde je danas radio. Ajde ti si iz tog sveta. Ja sam neko ko samo spolja to da kažem konzumira. Ali kad gledaš iznutra – gde je danas radio?

Katarina Moškatelo: Dobro jako je- moram ispraviti ne samo tebe nego često me u zadnje vreme ljudi najavljuju kao radio voditeljicu. To je ono što ja ne usuđujem se više nazivat tako. Ja to jesam bila niz godina dakle preko 10 godina ali nisam više. Ja poslednje 2-3 godine nisam na radiju i ja tako da nekako- 

Sanja Milosavljević: Izašla si iz toga, jel?

Katarina Moškatelo: Ne bih da preuzimam neki- da, nije mi u redu da si uzimam to pravo, a- 

Sanja Milosavljević: Ne, nisam ni mislila- da- interesuje me ne iz perspektive radio voditelja nego iz perspektive nekoga ko je zapravo bio u tom jednom svetu. Audio. 

Katarina Moškatelo: U tom slučaju ono što ti mogu reći definitivno mislim- radio je meni ogromna ljubav pre bilo čega drugog. Tako da meni što god da kažem treba pomnožiti pa podelit. Ja sam rasla uz radio- znači kod nas na Otoku pre bilo čega drugog da kažem se televizija palila nedeljom. Ja nisam nikada bila vezana za ekrane, u poslednjih nekoliko stanova u kojih jesam nije mi ni bilo važno da imam TV. Kad gledam stanove ne gledam TV. Koristim sadržaj on demand i tako to. Nisam stvarno vezana za to osim ako je stvarno neki sjajan dokumentarac pa ću popratiti nešto što se aktuelno gleda i događa- meni važno, osobno. Nogomet mi recimo ne spada u to. Ali radio kao radio je konstantno pratio svaki moj korak. Znači dok je baka kuhala u kuhinjici dva sa dva, taj radio je bio upaljen. Dok je majka radila nešto svoje taj radio je bio upaljen. Kad je tata dolazio spolja, radio bio upaljen. Štogod se dešavalo, nama je radio vječno bio upaljen. Kad nije bilo struje ono u ratno doba, mi smo baterije stavljali samo znaš, slušaš konstantno- osobito pomorci, imali smo pomoraca u obitelji bile su neke pomorske minute kad ti čekaš po tjedan dana da neko tamo sa dalekog mora se javi putem nekakve frekvencije pozdravi svoju obitelj. Znači ti čekaš danima da ta osoba- nema telefona, nema mobitela nema interneta, mejlova, ničega – čekaš taj trenutak da tu osobu negde tamo koja je već 6 meseci na moru, niko ga nije video ni čuo da pusti neku kratku poruku da obitelj pozdravi. Evo sad se ježim. To su toliko snažne emocije, radio je zapravo spovjest napravio toliko puno po pitanju povezivanja ljudi, po pitanju sređivanja, otvaranja nekih novih- mislim revolucije su se dizale, svašta se nešto događalo zbog radija. Radio danas je jedna potpuno drugačija priča. Mislim da je on izgubio danas na jedan način svoje ‘ja’, mislim da nikada neće ugasiti se. Radio kao radio. Radio kao medij je nešto što je vječno, on je s nama. Nepojmljivo je da se voziš sutra u autu pa sve da taj auto leti i više nisi na cesti, ti ćeš slušati nešto u autu. Mislim da radio kao takav kao medij za razliku od TV-a kome preti polako svojevrsno gašenje i zaborav ako ne doskoče nečem novom i drugačijem, mislim da radio je nešto što će biti vječno. Međutim, zašto smo mi danas odlučili prodati dušu svojevrsnim formatima ne znam, mislim da nisam baš preveliki ljubitelj toga iako sam i sama bila dakle- govorim ovo iz perspektive osobe koja je radila na radiju i pre formata- znači pre nego što se radio formatirao. Format je ono što odlučuje- imaš clock i odlučuješ koliko puta se u toku tog jednog sata sme pričati- 

Sanja Milosavljević: I važan je samo- da- i važan je samo algoritam a ne nešto drugo. Mislim znam nisam ni ja ljubitelj, da. Al dobro ima i- 

Katarina Moškatelo: To ima svoje, gledaj, to ima svoje. To hrani ljude. To donosi ljudima nešto. Ljudi stvarno danas nemaju više ni tog vremena ni snage ni entuzijazma možda osluškivati nešto sa tolikom pažnjom zato što smo – opet se vraćamo na ono sve povezano, raspršeni smo – i zbog te raspršenosti mi ne možemo sad sjedeti i slušati taj radio potpuno prisutno. Većinom, ja pričam sada o nekoj većini ljudi. I onda dolazimo do toga da jednostavno osobi je premalo ili previše nečega a sama autentična emocija koju je radio nekoć imao pa mislim da za početak je nestala u trenutku kada su ljudi prestali nazivat radio. Kad je uopće nečiji- live snimak, live javljanje nestalo kao takvo. Više se to- znaš gde se to radi? Na manjim, manjim seoskim radijima, manje sredine znaš toga još ima, ali recimo meni osobno tamo ne odgovara žanrovska muzika i ostali audio. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Naravno.

Katarina Moškatelo: Ali ti paše neverovatno to. Vraća se- meni je preslatko upaliti radio i čuti da neko prodaje tri grla nečega. Znači, genijalno je to, želim to. Želim slušat jer sam svesna da će ta tri grla tamo nešto donjet nekome sutra ručak na sto i tako dalje. Dakle znaš šta me- ta fuzija, ta fuzija svega gde mi nekako sami sebe pljuskamo kao. Znači željeli bi nešto ali zapravo ne bi to. Mi bi to napravili ovako nekako neke emocije ali zapravo bi ubili tu emociju. Zapravo i ne bi se prodali ali zapravo moramo od nečeg i živjet. Tako da smo konstantno u tom nekom traženju balansa i isto to se po meni dogodilo i radiju kao odgovor na tvoje pitanje. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Ne meni je znači- ja ga i dan danas slušam na primer Radio Beograd ili 202-ku ali ranije mi je radio baš bio izvor i ozbiljnih informacija. To kao čekaš omiljeni bend, da čuješ neku pesmu ili pratiš top liste ili slušaš neke emisije koje su edukativnog karaktera, šta god ali to mi je bio ono što je danas klincima internet, meni je to bio radio. Televizija ne, radio da. I onda ja ga volim i ja i dalje slušam. Čak imam po stanu razvučene zvučnike tako da u svakoj sobi ako se šetam iz sobe u sobu ja slušam svuda isto i slušam. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Pametno, pametno, sad bih ti- da mi je blizu kamere pokazala bih ti naš mali u kuhinji znači imamo kompletno retro onaj stari. Onako mali, mali, znaš gde ono ovako vrtiš na njemu dok nađeš stanicu, ima antenicu, ne bih ga menjala ni za šta. Jednostavno volim taj štih nečeg starog oko sebe. Starog u smislu vraća me u vreme kada smo čuvali emocije jednostavno i kada je ta emocija stvarno nešto vredela i kada je ta autentičnost, kada se o njoj nije samo propovedalo nego kada se u njoj živelo, eto tako. 

Sanja Milosavljević: To si baš mudro rekla. A ajde sada onaj deo gde sam rekla da smo koleginice – šta misliš o podkastu? Šta je podkast? Evo mi smo malo pre nego što smo krenuli da snimamo mi smo malo komentarisale šta je odkast i tako. Ja nisam odkaster, ja uopšte- ovo uopšte nije moja profesija, ja sam- ja imam svoju firmu, bavim se, sad sam iz prehrambene industrije, ovo mi je samo bila neka želja i strast. A otkud tolika popularnost podkasta?

Katarina Moškatelo: Mislim da nema- sjajno si zapravo to i rekla u samoj uvertiri što verovatno tvoji gledatelji i slušatelji već i znaju. Mislim da su prošla ta vremena- nisu čak i postojala ta vremena gde osoba koja se educirala da samo od toga živi. To što smo mi navikli da Džo Rogan od toga živi – Džo Roganu je trebalo godina i godina da dođe do toga a u konačnici nije se ni on školovao nigde za podkastera. Jednostavno ljudi počnu to raditi prvenstveno zato što ih drajva neka opća tema. Mislim da je to oduvek za bilo kakav dobar podkast a to je da postoji nekakva jasna i čista želja da se želi pričati i prenositi unutar nekakve teme koja je zanimljiva. Osobno mislim da je kod nas to onako baš zakašnjelo došlo. Mislim zakašnjelo – ne znam kad si ti počela slušati strane podkaste ali ja sam zadnjih 15-tak godina stvarno često i puno slušala i BBC-jeve i nekakve znavstvene i svašta nešto imali smo ekonomski- jako volim psihologiju, posebno tu psihologiju koja se onda isprepliće u poslovni deo priče i sfere i zapravo sam htela početi sa podkastom o psihologiji. Međutim poznavajući našu sredinu i poznavajući činjenicu da kad si na radiju toliki niz godina otprilike znaš- bilo naroda i to će prolaziti, recimo to tako. Tako da sam išla ziheraški, priznajem. Znala sam da podkast o psihologiji u tom trenutku neće dobro proći, pandemija je, ljudi su down sami po sebi već. Ukoliko krenemo sa nekim ozbiljnim temama vrlo je upitno što ću dobiti kao rezultat. Koliko god može moja energija, harizma održavat na nekom drugom nivou, to ne znači da će to proći. S druge strane smatrala sam da podkast na temu psihologije zapravo možda bolje da čekamo i prepustimo ljudima koji su stručni. Koji bi ti obrađivali na stručan-

Sanja Milosavljević: E, izvini što te prekidam, meni je jedna od gošći u Mondopreneur baš bila psihoterapeutkinja ovde iz Beograda i to je ovako- ja sam- dobijam ja fine komentare, ljudi pozdrave, ne znam šta. Ali kad je Bojana bila to je toliko ljudi bili presrećni što su imali priliku da čuju mene koja sam laik. Znači ja ne umem da- nas dve razgovaramo, ona je stručna ja sam laik. I ja je pitam onako kao što bi je sad ne znam neka teta na pijaci ili čika na ulici ili neko iz mog okruženja ko nema tih- nema predznanja, nego ja pitam onako kako ja mislim da to treba da se formuliše. A onda ona odgovara pošto već ima dovoljno iskustva, znanja i zna kako to da radi, je davala odgovore koji su jasni, precizni, razumljivi ljudima. Kad imaš dva stručnjaka koji razgovaraju onda imaš treći stručnjak ih razume ali, ono- običan čovek ima malo problem, bude mu frka da ne može da prati u stvari. Ta epizoda je bila ne znam, možda je ona najviše se gledala, najviše su se ljudi zadržali na- da. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Ali vidi sad Sanjo, zamisli da si radila svaku epizodu sa psihologom. 

Sanja Milosavljević: To da, to da, mislim slažem se. Ljudi su- kao da su bili željni da čuju da je okej da ne budu okej, da je okej da imaju-

Katarina Moškatelo: Mislim, da je tu iz ove perspektive kako sam ja to bila zamislila mislim da bi tu puno bolje prošao psiholog koji priča sa raznolikim ljudima iz potpuno drugačijih branši koji će onda dobiti jednu intenzivnu i kvalitetnu sliku i opet primera, inspiracije, iskustava, svega zajedno u totalu. I ja sam isto- to stiže, snimila sam jednu epizodu sa psihologicom upravo na tu temu putovanja i šta nam rade, šta nam rade emotivno, zašto nam toliko trebaju, zašto smo uopće navikli, to su nam napravili zapravo sa vreme pandemije sa tim nemogućnostima da mrdnemo i tako dalje, što je to sve napravilo u nama kako se nositi sa time i tako dalje. Ta epizoda nam stiže uskoro u Kilometre tako da pozdravljam svoju ekipu i preporučujem da je pogledaju kada stiže gost psihologica. Ali kažem ti u tom trenu kada sam razmišljala čemu posvetiti podkast, čemu posvetiti temu, putovanja u ono zapravo što meni daje drajva sada već niz godina i sva ta istraživanja. Ali pričati o putovanjima na način gde ljudima pokazujem slike i pričam o arhitekturi i povjesti nekog rada mislim da to nije najbolji način jer to je nešto što mogu izguglati, naći, pogledati dokumentarac i tako dalje. Ono što ljudi trebaju su ljudske priče zapravo i tako su se ti Kilometri isprepleli i sa putovanjima i sa kilometrima života jer čim kreneš iz roditeljskog doma i preko praga ti si svoj prvi kilometar napravio koji te sazdao u nešto. I tako smo nekako došli u tu jednu fuziju zapravo i puta i istraživanja i iskustava i svega zajedno i tako su se zapravo rodili Kilometri. A zašto su danas ljudi toliko željni tako nečeg drugačijeg i zašto podkast kod nas ide u tako ogromnom broju i zašto je toliko naš podkast izgradio- što je genijalno, ja pozdravljam apsolutno svaku ideju, ma svaku frizerku koja želi sa strašću pričati o tome zašto je moja kosa ovako strašno ispucana i šta ja mogu sa njom napraviti, ako ćeš mi sa strašću pričati o toj, pa pričaj mi, ja ću da slušam. Ako ćeš mi pričati o građevnim materijalima jer ja ništa ne znam o njima a razmišljam o kupovini stana i kako ću sad to sve, kako ću se nositi sa tim radovima, ma pričaj mi, napravi mi podkast o građevinarstvu, daj da čujem, želim nešto naučiti. Mislim da je došlo vreme da svako ko o nečemu nešto zna ili može prenet nešto nekog drugog, da su ljudi toliko željni toga, to je prvo a drugo toliko smo postali poslednjih 10 godina neverovatan bum znači seti se sama si rekla da si ti 80to godište, ja sam 82. mi za vreme srednje škole – ne znam ti, ja mobitel nisam imala. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Naravno da ne. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Znači od trenutka evo ja sebe gledam u poslednjih 15 godina. Od osobe koja mobitel nema do osobe koja razmišlja šta će poslati na Instagram šta na LinkedIn, šta na Facebook, znaš. Šta na YouTube u kom trenutku. Kad se sve te- to je ogroman, ogroman dijapazom rasta, saznanja, učenja, stresa, noviteta, mega fuzija svega. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Slažem se, a pritom je iz istorijske perspektive 15-20 godina ništa. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Ništa!

Sanja Milosavljević: Ništa, da tren. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Kužiš. I onda dolazimo do te kakofonije gde nam se odjednom u tih 15 godina dalo sve na pladnju što nikad nismo ni zamišljali znači ljudi pa pogledajte nema više na trafici smokvinog lista i plejboja. Jer je sva golotinja na internetu, šta će ti – nećeš više listati ništa naravno. To je apsolutno-

Sanja Milosavljević: A izvini ja sam mislila da je to zbog ekologije kao nećemo više da štampamo da ne zagađujemo okolinu. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Jeste, jeste, tako da se apsolutno od recepta popravljanja auta, postavljanja klime, psiholoških tema, bilo čega – sve je tamo. Znači na internetu je apsolutno sve. Ljudima je tog svega sa jedne strane previše, sa jedne strane premalo. E sve je jako površno, sve je u nekakvom kratkom formatu. Više manje. Jer ljudi vole kratki format zbog konzumacije vremena ovo što smo spomenuli malopre i za radio. Jednostavno nema- ne možeš izmisliti vreme koje nemaš, a sadržaj želiš konzumirati. I u tom nekako moru svega mislim da se izrodila ta želja da se stvore podkasti. Vidi podkasteri, ja ih volim zvati pravi podkasteri, mislim da su to ljudi koji svoje podkaste ne limitiraju ni na sat ni na dva kao što to ja radim nekad, to je nešto gde te voda nosi. Znači kad uključiš mikrofon pa to traje tri sata, onda je to kraj podkasta. Jer se zapravo o određenoj temi toliko spontano priča i toliko se razvija, baš ono razvija se razgovor da ono nema- naravno da ima svoju strukturu ali nema limita 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da to je, vidiš ja isto imam to vremensko ograničenja iz jednog prostog razloga što baš to – ima toliko sadržaja, treba držati nečiju pažnju jako dugo, ali ti da bi zapravo stvarno razgovarao o nekim stvarima, to je kao i u svakodnevnom životu, to je ispod sat, dva, tri, dok se ne pretrese, dok se ne okrene svaki kamen dok se ne pretrese svaka ćoškica ti ništa posebno nisi uradio. Ali ajde ovako kao ja nešto imam tu specifičnu temu, meni su žene u fokusu i meni je super što će sad možda neka devojka, žena, devojčica da tebe čuje kako si ti od radija stigla do podkasta i kao hm možda bih to mogla i ja. Ja sam tu nekako i više su mi opšte teme nego što su neke dnevne ili baš specifične. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Ali to je generalno zanimljivo. jer recimo primećuješ verujem i sama, javljaju ti ljudi da možda nemaju vremena – da bi pogledali celu epizodu ili poslušali ali nikako da nađu vremena. Meni se često to događa, kao da si barem kraća. Ali ljudi prekratko- za pojam podkasta sam prekratka!

Sanja Milosavljević: Da u stvari je to prekratko. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Da je to zapravo jako kratko i da meni nekad se toliko bojim da je površno, da smo otišli u površnost od kojih 45 minuta jer ne mogu ljudi da sve živo što bih htela pitati, što mislim da zaslužuje svaka od tih jedinki odgovoriti i ispričati o sebi, ne možeš zapravo ni dati jer si limitiran. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Znam, to su i moje boljke. Ali stvarno. I to je ono o čemu konstantno razmišljam i kad razmišljam o sledećem gostu i šta bih ga pitala onda gledam da to bude stvarno nešto toliko specifično, da budu dve-tri teme i po ne znam 10-15 minuta, negde dovoljno možda da se nešta ispriča malo dublje, da ne bude samo grebemo po površini i idemo dalje. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Pa to je to. Danas svi nešto od žurbe grebemo. Sama sam takav lik da mi se često puta dogodilo da nešto samo zagrebem pa kasnije ono, nije da imaš grižnju savesti ali radije bi se tome posvetio ukratko, znaš. Eto zato ona raspršenost sa početka – sjajna je, samo je treba dobro izorganizirati da ipak stigneš malo negde dublje jer u protivnom šta ćemo svi gore, na površini gužva je. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, a pitala bih te nešto, o tome sam na primer jutros razmišljala. Meni stalno sad na Facebook-u i Instagramu iskaču one reklame visual storytelling, how to become a prefect visual storyteller i tako, a ja sam nešto intimno, lično ja, ja sam taj audio storytelling. Ja volim da čujem- okej slika govori više od 1000 reči ali volim da mi neko čuje- volim da čujem baš to što si malopre rekla za putovanja, volim da čujem da je neko stvarno jeo neku super masnu pirošku u nekoj udžerici ne znam gde u Srbiji, Crnoj Gori ili Makedoniji. Znači meni to treba. Jel će se to nešto menjati ili ćemo i dalje ostati ti vizuelni tipovi i onda će vizuelni mediji uvek imati primat u odnosu na audio? Šta misliš o tome?

Katarina Moškatelo:  Sviđa mi se kako me vidiš kao Nostradamusa ali ne mogu da govorim tako…

Sanja Milosavljević: Ne mogu da kažem. Ne mogu da odajem, da. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Ne mogu ti odgovorit na to pitanje jer voljela bih i ja znati iskreno. Storytelling kao takav je nešto što je ono predivno. I mislim da treba se tome posvetiti. Ja preporučujem toplo svima onima koji se bore sa tim kako preneti određenu priču, kako zaintrigirati nekoga bilo da pišete, bilo da pričate, bilo da radite neki vizualni sadržaj, udemi- znaš za udemi aplikaciju, platformu. E na Udemiju imaš stvarno genijalnih tečajeva svih vrsta pa malo si dajte vremena, istražite, uzmite si nešto nećete ništa posebno izgubiti osim par dolara. U nekim slučajevima i naučite nešto novo jer je to toliko korisno, toliko genijalno i toliko znanja dobijemo koje možemo koristiti svaki dan. A što ćemo na koji način i opstat mislim da bih se usudila reći da će opstati ono što drži vodu. Bilo to video, bilo to audio. Mislim da to nekako ide u tom nekom smeru. Evo ja baš razmišljam šta ću sa Kilometrima i da li ćemo napraviti neku pauzicu uskoro ove sezone. Jer rađaju mi se neke nove ideje i to je sve zanimljivo – kreneš sa jednim projektom i kroz taj projekat kroz godinu-dve naučiš nešto, shvatiš nešto i odjednom se otvaraju neka kompletno nova vrata. Tako da i onako štogod dap očnemo raditi, to ne znači da je to to, da je to točka na i. Razvijaćemo se i unutar tog projekta i unutar nekog drugog, važno je da sebe ne ograničimo. Tako je isto i sa storytellingom, bitno je da se ne ograničavamo. Da ono što želimo prenet, nađemo najbolji mogući način da to prenesemo. A da li će to biti na kraju audio forma, video forma, da li ćemo pisati, da li ćemo ne znam obesiti to na ulice, printat, kako već svejedno je zapravo, mislim da je važno samo da nađe ciljanu publiku. 

Sanja Milosavljević: U da to je- to je početak i kraj u stvari. Nije kraj, to je početak. Hoćeš da nam kažeš kako je izgledala tvoja prošla godina? Znaš, to iz perspektive da nema kretanja, da smo odjednom ograničeni na 4 zida i iz perspektive baš tog voicovera jer to ipak podrazumeva neke odlaske u studio, rad sa nekim velikim brojem ljudi i kako je to tebi izgledalo? Mislim-

Katarina Moškatelo: Pa vidiš kod mene ti je- šta ja znam. Kod mene je baš onako- imam sreće što često razmišljam spontano bez puno pripreme nekoliko koraka unapred. Tako mi je bilo i sa tim video CV-jem koji sam napravila iz igre-

Sanja Milosavljević: Koji je odličan, odličan. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Ali nemojte gledati onaj stari! Please. Nego noviji od pre tri godine, iako je i taj već star, vreme je za neki novi. Hvala ti puno. On je nastao iz igre, onako iz otkaza na radiju, na glumu sam išla i dalje, sela sam sa profesoricom glume koja je predivan, prekrasan dramski pedagog i pitala je ja sam tu sad nešto zbrčkala, meni se to jako sviđa, šta ti misliš o tome i ona me je- malo mi je glupo da to kažem ljudima kao evo ja sad radim na radiju i ja sam sjajna radijska voditeljica. A ona kaže šta pričaš ti, ti nisi nikome rekla ja sam sjajna u tome i tome, ti si rekla ja ovo radim ovoliko godina, ovo radim toliko, ovo toliko. Osoba će sama proceniti želi li te, vidi li te unutar nekog projekta ili ne. Dakle znaš usudi se. To je ono što je ključna stvar. Tako mi je bilo i za vreme pandemije. Zapravo stalno se nešto ja usuđujem, barem tako ljudi oko mene kažu. Meni sve to deluje nekako- treba se usuditi. Igraš se pa šta bude. Nije me uopšte bed šta će neko reć, mislim da sam se od toga otcepila još na Otoku jer kad živiš u maloj sredini- ja sam živela u selu od 300 ljudi. Svaki dan su moja majka i otac svakodnevno meni govorili što će ljudi reći. Ja sam to dokrinirala sam. Intravenozno mi je. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Svi smo, svi smo, manje više svi smo. Da to je-

Katarina Moškatelo: E oni svi koji su prolazili to- dobro nisu svi ali većina koja je prolazila razumeće jako dobro. I onda u nekom trenutku shvatiš okej sad je meni to važno ili nije važno. Pazi, nikad da se razumemo iz sistema se apsolutno nikad, nikad, nikad ne može isčistiti nešto što je- 

Sanja Milosavljević: Toliko duboko. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Apsolutno. Ali ono što se može, može se naučit živjet s tim i može se iskoristiti za svoje dobro. Zapravo. I to je ono što sam napravila i po pitanju posla, i tog video CV-ja i da se vratim na tu pandemiju, dakle nije me oštetilo zato što sam napravila doma studio, zato što sam paralelno radila sa ljudima coaching. Pripreme za javne nastupe radim sa ekipom koja ima tremu, nesigurnost bilo koje vrste – nisu sigurni kako bi nešto ili izlagali ili predstavili i bore se sa bilo čim što znam da je iz mog domena i sama sam se borila sam učila. Ako im mogu pomoći, pomažem. Ukoliko je to već situacija za fonetičara, situacija za psihologa u nekom trenutku, tu ja prepuštam stvari ljudima sa kojima surađujem ali načelno to je ono sa čime sam se bavila više u pandemiji. Voiceovere sam snimala i dalje. Retaileri bez brige nisu bili bez posla dakle stvari u dućanima su se prodavale, što znači da su se reklamirale, što znači da sam ja posla imala bogu hvala tako da its okay. S treće strane nastao je taj- nastali su Kilometri. Oni su startovali dakle panedmija i lockdown prvi je krenuo u trećem mjesecu a ja sam krenula sa ovim u trećem mjesecu. Ja ga jesam iskreirala donekle i napravila neki dio strategije dva mjeseca ranije, ali dogodilo se što se dogodilo i bilo je ok. Šta sad da radimo, da pričamo o putovanjima kad niko nigde ne ide – pričaćemo. Ali niko nigde ne ide. Baš zato ćemo pričati. Ali to ljudima ide na živce jer niko nigde ne ide. Pa baš zato. Napravićemo feel good sadržaj – pričaćemo s ljudima o tome što im je nešto negde donelo, što su oni naučiti kroz to. Zašto ne? Znači samo promeniš perspektivu. Da ne možemo sa hrpetinom agencija putovati i ne znam šta, ali možemo ovo drugo. Tako da nekako pandemiju sam iskoristila na taj način. Paralelno je bila iznimno emotivno zahtevna. Meni je prošle godine otac u toj celoj priči baš je bilo grdo – bio je u bolnici pa nismo mogli do njega mjesec dana, zabranjene su bile posjete tako da se nekako- uspeli smo se pozdraviti i oprostiti na vreme, uspela sam biti ranije na Otoku jer kako sma freelancer imam nekad vremena. Ono, znaš imaš period od 2 tjedna gde se ništa posebno ne događa – nema konferencija, nema evenata koje moderiram, snimit mogu uvjek jer imam putni mikrofon sa sobom, znači…nekako sam se uspela organizirati život za sad i sreća da je tako jer se mogu muvat koliko mi je to izvedljivo. Tako da  sam uspela otići na Otok nešto ranije pre nego je tata imao moždani pa smo se podružili, igrali čoveče ne ljuti se do uveče i svađali ko što se uvek svađamo jer je njemu moj život potpuno neshvatljiv. On je hteo da ja radim u banci i ja uporno sam objašnjavala da to nije za mene i tako, al načelno i to smo nekako prošle godine preživeli. Ja sam četvrta, četvoro nas je braće i sestara tako da ovaj sav taj ispraćaj bez iti jedne žive duše, samo nas četvoro sa majkom je bilo onako sve zajedno je bilo toliko nestvarno i cela ta godina sve što je donela pa još jedna selidba, doselila sam dečka tu koji živi potpuno drugačijim stilom života nego što živim ja i toliko izazova, toliko neverovatnih stvari. Tako da mogu ti reći na pitanje kako je prošla ova godina, znaš ko neki brutalni rollercoaster. Ne znaš jel bi uzeo tiket i rekao ej ja imam još jednu vožnju daj još ili bi rekao daj smisli pauzu molim te. Vrti mi se u glavi. Eto takva mi je godina otprilike. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa dobro. Mislim, žao mi je- ja imam slično iskustvo ali koje se desilo nekoliko godina ranije i znam koliko je to bolno. Znam u principu koliko to iziskuje da se čovek smiri, povuče, razmisli, presabere i tako. Baš mi je žao. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Okej al racionaliziramo ali to je sve život i to je potpuno normalno, samo treba znati to odbolovat i shvatit i tako.

Sanja Milosavljević: Jeste, jeste. Ne nego u trenutku kada ti se desi nikad nisi spreman za to i onda sam taj šok prvog tog trenutka dok ne prođe, dok se ne slegne malo. Ovaj e pa dobro. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Dobro ali ja ti nekako tu tako ti potresi kod nas. Ne znam, možda će neko reći Jesus, lude žene, ali tako je to – gde ni smrt ni potresi ni ništa nekako – to je sve život. Ne dramatiziram ti to. Mene puno više izdrami i izmuči neka svakodnevna nepravda kad vidim čoveka koji nema nešto a zaslužio je to ili trebao je to dobiti ili osobu koja mora prolaziti kroz određenu vrstu nasilja a nije zaslužila to i nema pravo i ne može se izvući. Takve stvari mene bole. A hoće li tresti ili neće, hoćemo umirati ili ćemo se rađat, it’s a circle of life. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, it’s a circle of life. Baš tako. To je ono što se dešava, dešavalo se, dešava se i dešavaće se. Tu sad nešto nema – mi ne možemo ništa. Ne možemo da intervenišemo, ne možemo ništa da uradimo po tom pitanju. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Tako je, upravo to. Znači zanima me sve ono gde mogu intervenirati. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, da. Dobro. Stigle smo do kraja. Čak smo i prešli famoznih 40- 

Katarina Moškatelo: Eto vidiš, a nisam ti ni pola stigla. E, pitala si me nekakva- pitala si me samo za nekakve literature. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, hoću da- da. To sam htela ako možeš da nam preporučiš jer očigledno mi je da dosta radiš na sebi i da čitaš, da istražuješ i tako. Šta bi mogla da nam preporučiš da čitamo, da- ne znam. Ili da slušamo. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Da, slušanje…jao. Tu bih se sad trebala fokusirat da kažem šta sve volim slušati. Đamile ima sjajan podkast nađite ako uspijete ali osim toga imate odlične- znaš šta ja sad čitam, znači ne bi vjerovala. Pre bilo čega konstantno nekakva edukacija s obzirom da radim te radionice javnih nastupa i da radim s ljudima privatno – i meni to treba. Znači ja svaki put na svaku novu konferenciju kad izađem pred ljude se susretnem sa nečim novim. Ili je nova tema o kojoj ništa ne znam ili su kompletno novi uvjeti tehnički o kojima isto tako ništa ne znam. Ja nisam televizijsko dete, ja sam radijsko dete tako da sve što je pred kamerama puno izazov mi je. I samim time uzbudljivije, ja to eto nekako volim. Tako da ne znam imam sjajno od Eme i Tima Firona Vještina Razgovora. Recimo, odlična knjižica koju možete malo više skužit na koji način slušati. Jer ono kad osećamo nesigurnost među ljudima koji možda znaju u nekom trenutku nešto više mi se s nečim nismo susreli i tako dalje, posebno kroz poduzetništvo. To se stalno nalazimo, stalno se susrećemo s nekim izazovima jer smo sebi i knjigovođe i CEO-vi i zaposlenici i tajnice i sve smo si. Možete tu doslovce strategije za razna razrešavanja situacija nać. Genijalno je. Moć uspešne prezentacije to su Saša Petar i Frank Petar radili – kratka knjižica ali dobro dođe, genijalna je. Moć uveravanja, nešto što je radila, pisala Mirela Španjović-Marković s Twittera komunikacija. Ona u Zagrebu inače radi jako puno takvog tipa radionica, genijalna je knjiga. Dakle Moć Uveravanja genijalna knjiga. Ima puno NLP-ja jako puno tu, ne znam koliko vas radi na NLPju, meni je jako zanimljiv. NLP je ono kao i svaka metoda – vi birate da li ćete koristiti u smeru manipulacije za nešto negativno ili za nešto dobro i kvalitetno. Ima tu svega, Umeće Javnog Nastupa od Marijete Matijaš, i da – i Odlične Komunikacijske Veštine Verbalne i Neverbalne Persuazivne tehnike to su Antolović i Siličić radili to je baš onako jedna dobra i zanimljiva knjiga. To je to što se te neke stručne literature tiče. A za sam kraj pre nego pozdravim svih – Evergreen koji mislim da svako treba da čita, to su Razgovori s Bogom to je Fest pisao. To je čovek koji nikad u životu nije vjerovao u ništa. I način na koji je otkrivao neke nove stvari. Uglavnom zanimljivo, jako zanimljivo, za raspravu i za jedan potpuno novi podkast i novu temu. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Za jedan serijal, ne samo za jednu epizodu nego za ceo serijal. Eto, hvala ti mnogo-

Katarina Moškatelo: Rekla sam ti ono što sam ti stigla reći. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa znam, tako kad smo ograničeni vremenom. Hvala ti mnogo što si pristala, što si odvojila vreme da to vreme koje nam uvek nedostaje što si odvojila da podeliš sa nama i svoju priču i neke cake. I neke da nam preporučiš neke lepe knjige da čitamo. Stvarno ti hvala. Ja sam stvarno uživala. Ja sam znala da ću uživati jer sam slušala to što radiš, Kilometre i znala sam da ću ja sigurno da uživam a znam da će i ljudi sigurno da uživaju. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Nadam se da hoće s tim što je to mali deličak, ono to je 5% nekakve zajedničke priče. Bilo šta što ljude zanima generalno od stvari koje radimo mogu naći na samom Cloud-u ako se žele javiti, ako im treba neki savjet radim i online s ljudima. Slobodno dapače javite se. Na mejl imate www.moskatello.eu web stranicu, za e-mail vam mogu pomoći oko nečeg ili u konačnici event i ostalo naravno to uvek ostaje, to je nešto što se radi na tjednoj bazi i Kilometre onako zato- Kilometri dođu ko dezert. Dok dezerta ima koristite ga i uživajte. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Joj divno. Hvala ti. 

Katarina Moškatelo: Hvala tebi puno i hvala ti što zapravo radiš jednu ovako lepu i zanimljivu stvar i drugačiju od drugih. Držim fige da to potraje.

Sanja Milosavljević: Hvala. Dobri ljudi, slušali ste i gledali ste Mondopreneur podkast. Uvek možete da nas pratite na društvenim mrežama kao što su Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, možete da se pretplatite na naš YouTube kanal. Samo kucajte Mondopreneur. Budite dobri i dobroga zdravlja i vidimo se za nedelju dana.