EP044: Katarina Jelisavčić i Darija Tankosić, Mentors and Business Professionals from Serbia

Sanja Milosavljević: Good day, good people. My name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I will be your host today. Today I have a very special situation because for the first time since we have this podcast, we have two guests. And through our conversation you will actually understand why it is important that both of them are actually present, in one episode. And we’ll talk about all sorts of things, but we’ll leave that for now. This whole project is supported by the American Embassy in Belgrade in Serbia, and I thank them for that. Because they give us a chance to hear all sorts of stories from interesting people who deal with various issues. And our goal is actually to shed light from several angles to problems that we may have in common or some obstacles that are common to us and that we may not even be aware of. But when we hear that other people go through the same thing, maybe it will be easier for us and maybe we will find a solution, and have new ideas. So, I thank them for that. And my guests today are Darija and Katarina. I am also very glad, especially that they really do their best, Katarina celebrated her birthday yesterday. And they come and will share their stories with you and me. Well, dear ladies, thank you for accepting to come and participate in this project, to share your knowledge and your expertise. I would ask you to introduce yourself to us – what is your name, where are you from, what is your education background, for example, how your formal education affects what you do today, whether it has determined you or you are doing something totally different. And for example, what your hobby is. Well, here you go. Daria, would you go first?

Darija Tankosić: I will, thank you Sanja for this invitation. A very interesting area and a very interesting topics to talk about. Well, my name is Darija Tankosic and I have studied Political science for journalism and information. How much that determined me in my today’s entrepreneurial business – I think it profiled me somewhere. Because working first as a journalist and then entering the past government, out of pure enthusiasm in the 90’s, at a time of change, I can’t say that I worked in politics. I would rather say that I worked in a social mission. I worked on campaigns in Serbia and it seems to me that some part of my career defined me in the sense that I got to know the country in which I live and work, in the best way. After that journey, so to speak, to the state administration and politics, I was in the corporation for one or two years in sector of consumer goods. There I also got acquainted with marketing and got into communication a little deeper. I have to say that all my previous knowledge was very important, I also knew how the other side perceived it and how to place it in order to have the best possible effects. And what is very important, I think that a great love for marketing and communication was born here. For 13 years I have been in my own private business, I have set up my own agency, I am engaged in consulting in the field of development and I have gone through different areas like I said from consumer goods, fashion, agriculture – that’s where I met Katarina – our different educations and here I will skip the list of clients and areas I worked in, I would mention two things on which Katarina and I are already actively working together. These are two, so to speak, projects that originated from the movement “My Innovation” and with the idea to connect entrepreneurship, young people, innovations, this modern time of the technological revolution that is coming. First of all, to help entrepreneurs to jump faster into that wagon that is running faster and faster, and the project “My Mentor” where we ladies connect to help each other and that’s where the three of us met.

Sanja Milosavljević: In deed, and I am very glad for that.

Darija Tankosić: Likewise. I will stop here and let Katarina…

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, I’d just like to ask you one more thing before we continue. Just a comment, we talk a lot about innovation. And everyone uses, now it’s “buzzword”, one of “buzzwords”, but do we even know what innovation is and what is meant by innovation? Where are we regarding that?

Darija Tankosić: Well, I think that more and more people understand what it is – we came out of that mindset that it refers to technological innovations. I think that coronavirus has in a way, expanded the knowledge about this phenomenon or the phenomenon of innovation in general. Innovation is more of a state of mind, to step out of some established forms of business, functioning, problem solving. To look at the bigger picture, to get informed, to use these new means of communication, you have the opportunity to see a much wider range of tools available to you. Here, when we start talking to Katarina, we will see, I think that today it is also available to farmers who are in some middle age today in terms of very serious help in the field, not to mention some of our occupations, that are, so to speak a little more sophisticated and where we can do very, very serious work from our homes today and influence a serious part of public opinion with what we do.

Sanja Milosavljević: Thank you. Thank you, thank you because we talk a lot about that, we use it a lot, and now someone who is in that field, they know, it is clear to them, they have distinguished what it is, what are the areas, what are the tools, and then it seems to me that those for whom it is intended in fact, innovation, often may not even realize that they may already be doing something that is innovative. That their business model may be innovative, they are not aware that they have already entered the innovation. Thank you. Katarina, please, continue.

Katarina Jelisavčić: So, my name is Katarina Jelisavčić, I am from Belgrade, I have a degree in agricultural engineering, I graduated from the Faculty of Agriculture in Zemun and hold several specializations in various fields and in a quality control and organic production. I have 11 licenses in terms of integrated management system and quality control system and so that is my the most basic education. My career is very unusual. I started like Darija in the Serbian government in the 2000s, and I was dealing with the strategy for the development of Serbian agriculture, and I had the opportunity to get to know our country at that moment, because in a year I travelled 120,000 kilometers and visited over 350 villages in Serbia. Where, through various educations of farmers, the formation of agricultural cooperatives, associations and so on, I felt the pulse even then and went a little further into that branch which was very unpopular in Serbia at that time. In a way, a journey took me further to the corporation and so I spent almost 6 years at PKB in the position of Deputy General Manager, and Director of Quality Development and New Technologies and after those two things, so to say, I always wanted to have something of my own. And after that I entered entrepreneurship where I opened my own company and I deal with consulting in agriculture, primarily in the field of quality and implementation of standards required in agricultural production Global GAP famous – Good Agricultural Practice which is an essential standard for example as we say HACCP in the food and beverage industry, this standard is also important in quality control of fresh fruits and vegetables. And of course, Food Safety standards related to distribution centers, processing and so on and of course this is the highlight where I help our producers from all over Serbia to place their products more easily in distribution centers and distribution centers in foreign markets. In addition to all that, of course, Darija and I, as she said, are working on new projects and we are involved a lot with funds, so just when you talked – when you said about the US Embassy, ​ we participate in a USAID project and we are already tied to the American embassy, ​​as well as for USAID itself, where we always doing something, a project in which we are involved. Well, at the moment, this project “Competitive” has been going on for some time…

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, 4-5 years, yes. from 2016, 2017.

Katarina Jelisavčić: That`s right. From ‘17.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, yes, that’s right. I thought it was ’18 or ’17, but it doesn’t matter at all. As far as our farmers are concerned, but I mean the small ones, not the big ones, for example, farms that have, I don’t know mechanization and which are already growing. I can’t say that they are medium-sized companies farms and have developed the placement of their products. How hard is it to work with small farms? Do they understand what the added value is if they put something in order anyway – even if they have a list of raw materials. If they take care – how much does everything cost – how close is it to them? Because I know that in our country traditionally “peasant” – I mean, I don’t think anything bad about it, but they constantly have that saying “Someone wants to deceive us” and they are always in that fear and I understand that fear, that fear is partially justified.

Katarina Jelisavčić: But only partially.

Sanja Milosavljević: Partially. But, how much ready are they? How easy is to make an arrangement with them?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Okey, I will be harsh in my response. Because I have been in that business for years now and because I have been observing manufacturers for literally longer than the last 15 years. The time has come in the last 7-8 years agriculture as an industry is viewed like any other industry. So, the strongest, the most persistent, the most educated and the people who perceive agriculture as their profession, will survive. Those little ones who “whine” – when I have to use that word – are people who will never understand that everything, even if they have 20 acres, I don’t know – it is – that is already something serious. Or those with 2-3 sheep, 3 goats, 1 cow, they see themselves as farmers. No, they are not, they are classic rural households that have these few to say elements for survival. And that is-

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, they don`t make surplus of products, they just…

Katarina Jelisavčić: And that is not agriculture. And that is not the target group that I deal with any more. And I don’t want to deal with it anymore. I say, I go back to the fact that it may sound cruel, but it’s terribly exhausting to me. These people cannot understand you, because they do not follow trends first, they do not follow development, they are not development-oriented, and their expectations are too high. There are regions in Serbia that are very, very specific on this issue and where they expect, let’s say raspberries, some autochthonous varieties from 40-50 years ago have on some 20 acres and expect to have a raspberry price of some 3.5-4 euros when it is in season, and when we return to new technologies, innovations and everything we talked about, we talk about some new assortments that are very important, where you have consumer raspberries of new varieties such as kwanza, this – it doesn’t matter, other new varieties. Where they plant on a hectare, two, three and people who have invested much more, of course, and that is their business. So, in the last couple of years, I have managed to make a distinction between who are farmers and to see in general which word should be used for that kind of agricultural activity-

Sanja Milosavljević: Good.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Compared to those traditional households that do everything on their land. So, that`s it.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, I somehow agree. This is in line with my experience with terrain work. When you’re doing everything, you are unable to achieve anything. And that can be replicated in everyday life – if you do many things, you can’t be the best in all of them. I mean, it’s impossible, you can’t achieve that. And to them it seems like this – we have a little bit of this, we have 2-3 sheep, we have some land, maybe we have 2-3 quinces and so on. And by no means they can create a surplus in products that would be competitive in the market.

Katarina Jelisavčić: That`s right, yes.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, where are we now? How many of them – how many of our agricultural farms decide to invest a little in better mechanization, new technologies, I don’t know, better quality pesticides, better quality chemicals that will be used. Where the benefit certainly- you cannot make tons of products if you use traditional ways of farming the land.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Well, we can really say that agriculture has really experienced the greatest, so to speak-

Sanja Milosavljević: Growth and leap?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Growth, yes. And the rise, compared to all other industries. Today, I’m watching – I’ve been in that field for 15 years – it’s something I remember 15 years ago, it was those wheat field, some cereals, something small when you pass through Serbia, no days there are orchards under anti-hail nets, under irrigation systems and you can really see them. It really shows. A serious shift is seen. A lot of money went into agriculture from some, say, private resources. Some people who are, so to speak, from other branches entered agriculture. So, people who are educated, entered into agriculture, to make it their business. And there was a serious shift. So, these are people who deal with innovative technologies, in very controlled production, who are very careful about treatments and who will do pesticides – that’s what I do – that’s some key to my job. And that is to take care of the quality control of each fruit tree. And vegetables. So, a serious shift has happened, but exclusively in crop production. Livestock production has not yet reached a more serious step, so to speak, and it has not experienced, again, due to the poorly created strategy for the development of agriculture in Serbia. You know, livestock breeding is an area where – it requires the support of the state, no matter what we think, it is. Cattle breeding, dairy cattle breeding, cows as a serious factory, it must be supported by the state in one way or another. So, I wouldn’t want to dissipate now, but that’s a topic I…

Sanja Milosavljević: That is a topic for-

Katarina Jelisavčić: It’s a topic that we can talk about a lot and just go from episode to episode. So, today’s topic is something different and I think we should turn to that, as women entrepreneurs and certainly both of us, may have some very unusual and specific experiences and the way we deal with it through the work we do.

Sanja Milosavljević: And that is exactly my next question – this previous topic is very interesting to me personally and then I have to get from you as much as possible.

Katarina Jelisavčić: We will do that next time.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, in the next one.

Darija Tankosić: Sorry, I just want to make one conclusion that Katarina and I drew from all that she was talking about. We have reached that key point where this shift took place. How did this shift in agriculture happened? Management, professional management has entered into agriculture, not as a hobby. They left their jobs in corporations, they invested some money, money they earned, they invested it. And they set some standards. And with that, experts have appeared, that offer – like Katarina, when she appears and speaks about a cooperative business model, it is no longer, I don’t know, a bunch of some strange words.

Sanja Milosavljević: It is known now, yes.

Darija Tankosić: That`s right.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, that`s great.

Darija Tankosić: Well, that’s it, I’d just added a bit.  

Sanja Milosavljević: Thank you, Daria. And now, I am really interested in what it is like to be a woman entrepreneur in your industry, for example, and especially how it is – which may be somehow traditionally associated with women, so there are strong men, but there are also strong women and we already familiar with that. And for Katarina to tell us what it’s like to be – a woman entrepreneur in a sector that seems to me to be traditionally – the male sphere. Would you like to go first, Daria?

Darija Tankosić: Well, it will be a little easier for me to answer the question than for Katarina. Well, on the one hand, it’s easier to say, you don’t face the first prejudice – a woman in that business. And on the other hand, I think that in general, being a woman in any serious business is like this … because no matter how advanced we are as a civilization and as a society, we always deal first with some prejudices in relation to women, and then on the other side, with that widespread opinion that women can’t pull that much. That is not true at all. I mean really, I can say that, I really had the least problems with women in my work to get the job done. And in a way, that mindset in fact, that notion that work is a whole and that there is a beginning and there is an end. I think that is the greatest value of that female energy in business, so to speak. What makes me happy – I would not like to name now, but even with some of our great businessmen, you can often read or hear in some of their interviews they say that their best associates are actually women and that somewhere, their success lays in the pillars of their system where women are managers. So, I really don’t want to sound so pro-feminist exaggerated now, but power towards women in every way.

Sanja Milosavljević: But why not, I think the same, I agree – I will not name him but I know who you are talking about. I agree because we, women have a specific, first emotional intelligence more developed maybe- we are a little more in touch with ourselves and our emotions than men, they are logical, so rational. So, we understand the process – what you said, the beginning, the middle and the end, and we strive to finish – I mean we strive to complete the whole, so maybe – and we have that empathy, we have understanding for others, we can lead teams very successfully and so on. And Katarina, what about you? It’s really – the agricultural sector is really dominant, even in my head, so it’s not just my prejudice, I know that the people from that sector are mostly men. So, how is it for you? You are so small, so tender, you look fragile, how was that, how did you impose yourself?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Uh, well … natural talent. This is a story that really requires a special show because it is too interesting. My struggle and mine – to say my breaking through the prejudices that have ruled and still rule in Serbia today, like the people who are in the field of agriculture and who are – it does not matter whether they are engineers, doctors of science or whatever, prejudices exist. You know, we always think of an engineer as someone – a big, big man and strong old women- of course, I apologize for mentioning strong old women, but this-

Sanja Milosavljević: We know what you mean.

Katarina Jelisavčić: And then a little blonde shows up, I’m sure probably everyone watched that movie “Legal blonde”. It’s one of my favorite movies, probably because I completely identified myself. And that’s when a little blonde appears like that, in a world that doesn’t even know what that little blue looks like for real. That’s how my development path looked like. I will share with you just one detail, and based on that detail, everything will be clear to you. And today I am here where I am, thanks to one of my features – persistence. And to say that going into myself, knowing what my trumps are. I just used that little blonde as a serious trump card in my field of work. Because there are no little blondes in agriculture. Here, that is something that – I will tell you one detail while working in the government of Serbia and dealing with a business where I worked all over Serbia. And in the beginning, when people would just saw me, I would come to a household working with cattle breeding, and so on. And when they would see me at the gate, they would just look at me like, like … who are you? What do you know? And then I would do my best thinking that I don’t have enough stories, it wasn’t enough that I have to tell them. I did it like this. I packed my coat, my boots and equipment nicely in my suitcases – as work equipment. I would come to the farm, enter the barn, gave expert advice on the micro-climatic conditions in the facility where the cows are, and then ask the basic questions – “Excuse me, do you know how to milk a cow properly?” And then they would look at me – they will step back and say “God, of course”. And I would say, “And what do you do with the first stream of milk?” And then they would look at me in wonder. I would say “Please, give me a black cup.” And then they gave me a black bowl, I milk those first jets of milk, I would look if they have somatic cells, and if they don’t – let me not bother you with that now – I would show them the proper procedure for milking a cow. And now a little blonde, who came to the village with manicured nails, put on gloves and behaves in accordance with the standard, quality and quality control and demonstrates milking the cow. Well, that was the move where I bought the whole of Serbia, even the American embassy, ​​where it was suddenly rumored that there was a little blonde who roamed Serbia, they call her Heidi, and she milks the cows.

Darija Danoksić: That`s the strategy.

Katarina Jelisavčić: So, I just wanted to share with you an example of what it is and how I survived in the market as a little blonde from Belgrade, from the family of a mechanical engineer and a doctor. And how I managed in that industry. It was not easy for me to experience everything I have experienced. Of course, there were many, many inconveniences, many – how to say – falls. But when you fall, you get up, you dust yourself and go on. So, from this point of view, from today, I can say that I am very proud, I love working with women. I adore women’s entrepreneurship, I adore women who do something – who do something valuable. So, each of us who is in it, brings some value. And I think if we are together and if we are in sync and if we support each other, help each other, promote each other in that professional way, that it is really a formula for success and really a formula for further development and survival in the market.

Sanja Milosavljević: I really agree with that. I mean, that is close to me, personally. And what am I working on, myself. Now, do you want to tell me what do you think about mentoring, in general? I mean, now there are some definitions that have already been accepted, we all know them, but what is mentoring for you? And do you have a female mentor? Or a mentor?

Darija Danoksić: Well for me, mentoring is a kind of sharing. And when I think of mentoring, for example, and when I think of our project “My Mentor”, I somehow do not see a relationship of a mentor and a student. I see mutual sharing of values, there. Because, what is a concept of the project? We imagined, let`s say, someone has a product, but it lacks the placement. They lack that awareness of how to develop that product, how to earn something from it. It has its value, but it is not enough just to produce it, it is equally important to sell it. And promote that product. And then if someone managed to create something, and I managed to tell him in which direction to go and how to promote it, how do we now weigh what it is –

Sanja Milosavljević: What belongs to whom.

Darija Danoksić: Now I would not oppose the definition, and contrary to some definitions in which it means you have a mentor and you have someone who follows the mentor, but here, I said how I perceive the mentor and that part of the process that interests me, in a way. There is where, the two of us came together as an example of that same mentorship. Um, where really at some point one might be the dominating one and at another moment it’s the other, so … I’d say it’s an innovative accent to create new value. For me, that is the definition – my definition. And the part of the definition that interests me.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, you know what’s interesting to me? I mean, I have mentors, I had and I will have them in the future. And I had the best interpersonal relationship with people – the mentoring part when we do – someone shows you a tool or gives you some information and leave you to do what you want with that information – but I have the best relationships and I have used the capacities and potentials of those relationships when there was no vanity. When vanity was excluded – mine too, to open up, to admit that I don’t know something, that I have made a mistake and so on, and I my mentor, to also accept that he or she also got something from that relationship – yes.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Well, I really want to add to that. I think – but I really think this experience that I had in the last year is like that – I think that entrepreneurs, that is, female entrepreneurs, let’s talk about women now – really have no vanity. And what I felt-

Darija Danoksić: Successful female entrepreneur.

Katarina Jelisavčić: We are talking, of course, about successful female entrepreneurs – so you can’t call someone an entrepreneur if he is not successful. I mean, it’s a word that is already taken as is. But yes, you’re right. The point is – what is mentoring? Exchange, this is what Daria said. So, we are all mentors to each other. And the mentor, I look at the mentor – Darija is my mentor. You are my mentor. So that is the fact that I very much accept the suggestion, the advice, and the new knowledge, because that is the only way for us to go further and to progress and develop. So, today’s view of mentoring, I strive for in that direction and authority, sincerely. It’s mine – how to say, for me authority, it’s a word that is very old to me. Or archaic. Respect yes, but again, towards whom. So that’s when we talk about that respect and veneration. I really experience all this as a kind of mentoring. Because all of us – if you are open, and if you open your hands like this, then you will give and receive. And that is that. And everything is a two-way street.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, you are right.

Darija Danoksić: And I would like to add to that, to Katarina’s part where she talks about veneration – which has changed my view to the topic of mentoring and the fact that very often you can’t measure who is actually learning from whom. When I started this project “My Innovation”, we were initially focused on working with young people. And there were really young people on my team. And at some point, learning new technologies, and communication channels, social networks and so on – on my part under their mentorship so to speak it was such a completely phenomenal experience. Where does one of my great colleagues say “The student surpassed the teacher”, that is, when I mastered the tools a bit, when I realized how generous it is and what can be done there, and how all this knowledge I gained and collected I can share. And then, when I realized that we had entered into some friendly relationship in which we really learn from each other, and then at some point I was completely shocked when I realized that the boy was born when I was in my third year of college. No, that’s totally fascinating. Now, Katarina and I, we are friends with that team and I would now like to say hello to Bojan!

Katarina Jelisavčić: Hi, Boki!

Sanja Milosavljević: Greetings to Bojan!

Darija Danoksić: Yes. So, when we really talk about that phenomenon that we call mentoring, I wouldn’t give it age, I wouldn’t give it a title, as we are a mentor and a student. First of all, I would give it the soul, to say so. So, the absence of what you just said is the absence of vanity. So, one really closed circle and that female principle – let’s close the story. So, the result is important.

Sanja Milosavljević: We women- yes. I also like to see – I started something, finished something, the result is there and that’s it.

Darija Danoksić: So, what should we do, I think from planning lunch onwards. We don’t have the opportunity to go out now. I mean, we have to finish something first.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, but it’s good – I see that – I see it as a good trait. What did you imagine that project “My Mentor” would look like, how would you connect, that is, how would you find the ideal mentoring couples? Because it doesn’t have to be – of course, everyone can be a mentor to everyone, but as I said – I don’t have it with some people – I don’t click, I don’t have that something. How did you design it? How are you going to match couples? Does it matter, for example, that Katarina is from a certain sector, and will you connect her with a woman who has a specific need for her services, for example, or for her expertise, or is it irrelevant? How did you design it?

Darija Danoksić: We started this project during the pandemic.

Sanja Milosavljević: Good, you have discovered new talents.

Darija Danoksić:Yes. We couldn’t make that direct contact at all, in which we could, like, feel like who suits whom, and something like this, on the principle of some already existing acquaintances, we thought how great it would be to combine these, see how good this product is, let’s promote it, see this has enough elements to start making a brand out of it, and so on. But if we are talking about a more serious job and if we want some effect, it means that we are doing something similar to what you have been doing for many years, it really cannot be done without some support from those institutions that enable that logistics. And the first phase of the project must definitely be mapping. And in certain local communities, or areas, and if I can say something more, we started with the project-

Sanja Milosavljević: Please, tell us.

Darija Danoksić: With the Chamber of Commerce, we will see what it will look like, we are waiting, we greet them, everyone who see us now, it would be nice-

Sanja Milosavljević: We greet them all.

Darija Danoksić: Yes, we are all involved in that story. So, if you believe in us, support us.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, I agree with you, I think it’s great that there is an individual initiative, someone has to pull things, someone has to start, but without an institutional help, support, to know that you have a partner who is strong and powerful enough to be tied to people who actually make some decisions – I think that projects that do not have this kind of support are not doomed, but it takes much longer, it is much harder to implement it, that is, to implement it from beginning to an end. Well, what will it look like – how will these women get together? How will it be, I don’t know, on a monthly basis, on a weekly basis, how will it be?

Darija Danoksić: So now you expect me to tell you something that should be the beginning of a marketing campaign. I can’t do that.

Sanja Milosavljević: Let`s just say a bit. Would you like?

Darija Danoksić: From our examples, of the work of our mentors, we want to make a kind of vocational trainings. Which we will be able to share, thanks to new learning tools. So, every woman can find that workshop online in her field of interest, and now you have made me say some things. And to go to their local community, make good series of trainings, very interesting, not boring documentary forms without beginning and end, but very clear – with clear steps of what it takes to step out of that area, and you maybe lack sales, placement, design, and what I would emphasize is the great influence of the creative industries. And I think that’s the key because you can say a thousand words in one picture. And it’s easier for everyone – both to get someone`s attention and to teach someone something.

Sanja Milosavljević: So, when is women really empowered?

Darija Danoksić: When she is independent. In every way.

Sanja Milosavljević: And what is that to us – that’s what I say when I have conversations like this – I’m not saying that it wasn’t my problem once. I mean, I’m not better now than some others women. But when are we really empowered? I see some women who are both successful and they have families and friends, but sometimes they lose strength and are not completely-

Katarina Jelisavčić: When they are good here.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes. When they are empowered? When is that moment? The moment?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Well, I’m sorry to interrupt. Because it’s a question for me these days, of course, when I’m celebrating my birthday, a round number.

Sanja Milosavljević: And beautiful. Sorry, those are good years.

Katarina Jelisavčić: That’s a nice number, yes. Then comes that classic re-examination. I think every woman really has an answer to that because I wondered what happened. Because all this when I was talking about some of my career and some development path, it was neither easy nor pleasant, no, uh, with a lot of lack of self-confidence, it just hit you – and then suddenly something happened, a miracle. Some kind of literally enlightenment happens and you accept yourself. I think a woman is empowered the moment she accepts herself with all her virtues and flaws. And when she says yes, it’s me, and famous Ruška Jakić who always says to herself “Good morning, beautiful” in the morning. These are things that are really inevitable and very necessary. And the sooner you adopt them, the sooner you will be empowered. But I really think everyone is lying when they say it can happen in some earlier years or overnight. Simply, self-development and experience. These are the two things that make you strong at some point in your life.

Darija Danoksić: But it can go faster. I have to say something-

Sanja Milosavljević: I am listening.

Darija Danoksić: We need those shortcuts to say, and I got a slogan – “You can do it yourself”. So, you are not alone, but you can do it yourself. I think that that is women empowerment, that she can do it herself. That is why this story and platform is phenomenal, meaning the story of entrepreneurship, because whatever we talk about, in the end we have to start from existence.

Sanja Milosavljević: of course, and we return to it.

Darija Danoksić: We go back to it, like in circles. The beginning and the end of the story. So, you can do it by yourself. And I think that society should also work on empowering women so that they can be present in each area, that they are welcome in each area, that they are not dependent – unfortunately, facts, figures, papers show us that women do not know when to go to the bank and ask for a loan, and very rarely have real estate and have many kinds of problems to get some kind of support for their type of entrepreneurship or-

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, I have to – I just have to add that things are really changing and now there are some banks and products that are designed only for women with some fine interest rate, so that changes a bit.

Darija Danoksić: It is changing, yes, I would like to promote that story as well. Because now when we talk about mentors, that is also one of the topics that is very important to us. So, women have heard of it. But let’s see someone who went through that. And that someone is in a similar position as she is.

Sanja Milosavljević: Well, it is. I think that is the goal of our conversations, as well. Yes, we can see that we have similar problems, we may have the same obstacles and we are not alone, and there is one circle, one safe network in which we can count on. Okay, I would – since we don’t have much time left – I’d like to talk about this one big project. Which is totally fascinating to me because it’s all-encompassing. That is, both vertically and horizontally. And it will cover literally everything. And of course, it will be intended for everyone, so it will not only be intended for women, but simply intended for everyone who wants to progress, to learn, to work, to create, to develop. Tell me about it. The story is so fascinating, but really, I enjoyed it when you told me about it – from the storytelling to videos, everything is absolutely great.

Darija Danoksić: Thanks. So, you are one of the people we want to involve in this big project. You had that opportunity to-

Sanja Milosavljević: But just to tell people that you are not here because of that, but because of the work you do, which is important for the society.

Darija Danoksić: Yes, thank you. Well, this is, you said it nicely, completely new and still fascinating project for us. It’s called Smart Village. Our idea is that in one place, all this that we are talking about, plus some very seriously developed different businesses come to life as one pilot project, it is ecosystem that will show all this that we are talking about today as a necessity, in the meantime. It will include ecology, sustainability, biodiversity conservation, entrepreneurship, merging innovation and business, merging innovation, business and entrepreneurship, new innovative rural tourism, regional cooperation, creating a new economy based on the knowledge economy and I would say, a very, very important element, and that is an economy of new solidarity. So, I can’t really-

Sanja Milosavljević: That’s why I say comprehensive because yes, it’s just all-encompassing. Can you tell us what is the knowledge economy?

Darija Danoksić: It is this, what we are talking about.

Sanja Milosavljević: Sorry, I don`t hear that term very often.

Darija Danoksić: Well, because it’s not popular. Because it is an economy that is based on real elements. So, when you create some value, it really means a new value that came out of some work, and it’s not a matter of pouring from the hole into another. I would not like to turn out to be an expert in the field of economics or someone who is against the story of numbers, banks and funds. I mean, they’re very important. But to say amount of money is invested in something and to show in reality some created value and to invest knowledge in order to create some new value, that is much more difficult.

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes. For me-

Darija Danoksić: And you had the opportunity to know some more details on some of our projects and to see that in each of these elements that we have imagined, new value really arises from an innovation, from something new, for what we plan to invite all initiatives that we believe they deserve to be part of such a great regional story. To get involved, give their contribution and ultimately profit from something like that.

Sanja Milosavljević: It is that triple-win combination for the individual and the state and the region. It’s not just my interest and only for me, it’s just – I’m just saying it’s a comprehensive story.

Darija Danoksić. Well, that’s true too – I’m sorry to interrupt, that is the secret of Silicon Valley. I mean, how is it made? The essence is that you brought people to one locality who are innovators in their fields. And with their mutual communication, the new value between two innovators and those two values creates that third value that is much greater than the value between me as a student and an innovator. I think it’s just some – some superimposition on something I do or what somebody else does. So, a lot of relevant factors in one place, let’s now-

Sanja Milosavljević: Nicely said.

Darija Danoksić: I’m quoting a professor who explained this to me and I was … wow. I really don’t have a better definition.

Sanja Milosavljević: Than that.

Darija Danoksić: Yes, so – ecosystem.

Sanja Milosavljević: Ecosystem. It’s a new-old word. In fact, we give the old word a new value. Katarina, what did your last year look like? What is your new value?

Katarina Jelisavčić: My last year, believe it or not, was not much different from the previous ones. For the simple reason that during the pandemic, the area I deal with – agriculture – could not, of course, be quarantined. So. I-

Sanja Milosavljević: I even think- sorry- I think that, besides logistics and transport, agriculture was the only branch working.

Katarina Jelisavčić: It works, that’s right. So last year, I really had a good business year in the sense that nothing much different happened there. And professionally, nothing much has changed. And what has changed is my value, maybe even personal. That in the sense that I had time, which was very pleasant and suitable for me after one horrible and turbulent life. You now have time to sit with yourself like that and clean your drawers. So that period of the pandemic meant a lot to me for the simple reason that I could fix my head. So that-

Sanja Milosavljević: You said it nicely. To fix our heads.

Katarina Jelisavčić: You pack everything where it belongs, and then when you fix it, then you can work on yourself and you develop in some directions that you need, for your career. So, to me personally, that’s the value. And really something that – and of course the two of us had a lot more time in that period to create some projects and all that awaits us now and everything that we plan to get into as professionally and deeply as possible. So, the two of us used that period really good. That’s it – and then when people react quite negatively to the pandemic, we got the maximum of it and I can freely say that I am a completely different person. In a much more positive sense.

Sanja Milosavljević: That`s nice. That`s powerful.

Katarina Jelisavčić: In relation to a period before that.

Sanja Milosavljević: And do you think you just needed to make a break, in fact. To retreat?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Yes, it was my focus, I needed time. I needed to have time to put everything that is in my head and that you don’t know if it’s your priority or not, and you can’t even define it all, to pack it nicely. And when you do that, then you are completely, you know, you have done the cleaning.

Darija Danoksić: I think you forgot to say that, uh- Katarina, I think she has quite perfected her expertise in the field of cooperative business model.

Katarina Jelisavčić: I did!

Darija Danoksić: You put emphasis on that. For me, it is an innovation in the field that she works in, as a consultant.

Katarina Jelisavčić: That’s right, thanks Daria, yes. It`s true. There are just so many topics and therefore-

Sanja Milosavljević: Can you tell us shortly, something about that?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Well, I’m going back to my career, which is very diverse and where I have various experiences in working with agricultural producers and then distribution centers, and these chains and so on, I realized one basic thing that is missing in our country and that is the cooperative business model. In order for a distribution center to function, and for that chain to continue to function, it must have some producers, right?

Sanja Milosavljević: Sure.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Well, since it is all one chain, so, every link in the chain, the distribution center as the main purchaser of fresh or frozen fruits and vegetables needs producers, that is, people who will produce certain quantities of the necessary product. And there is always a big problem. Because there has never been a good bond between the manufacturer and the distribution center. And then I developed the model, called the cooperative business model where I made the previously mentioned word, two-way street, how a distribution center can help a manufacturer, and how a manufacturer then delivers that quality product to that distribution center. And now it is through the elements and through the topics that concern the very type of business, and I can say that it got an importance in the market. Of course, it doesn’t nor can it go fast, it is literally a change of consciousness for both the companies and the producers themselves.

Sanja Milosavljević: I think it’s harder with big companies as they have more rigid structures.

Katarina Jelisavčić: No, believe me, they don`t. Companies are very, very interested in having their subcontractors who will produce for them according to certain standards, what they need.

Sanja Milosavljević: Lidl does that perfectly, right?

Darija Danoksić: Yes, Lidl is a really good example. But there is also one important moment, which we somehow passed through these projects of ours and we would put it under this new type of economic solidarity, and that is this kind of vehicle in which the big ones pull the little ones.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Yes.

Darija Danoksić: And so, that acceleration is achieved. And if you make that dispersion on those little ones like that, you need a lot more energy than when you make allies out of the big ones and then you pull those little ones together. And we must always keep in mind that Serbia is the most agricultural country in Europe. So, we have almost 50% of the population in the field of agriculture and what is not clear to us? So, it’s kind of ours, but that’s really our biggest advantage. And there is another fact that in 2018, exports from the IT industry were higher than income from agriculture. And now instead of lamenting over it, let’s take it and put it together.

Sanja Milosavljević: That`s right. Of course.

Darija Danoksić: Let’s combine that, and by combining the two greatest values of the Serbian economy, let’s make innovative models of how we will make that – to use another interesting word-quantum leap. But we can, really. New times give you those opportunities. I think that this time brings chances, first of all to big systems, countries and so on – I think it’s harder for systems because they are big whales that are difficult to start, but the states themselves if they accept a more innovative approach with the help of funds and big ones, so to speak, and all people of good will, I think that by connecting and making some of the models we talked about today, we can really make that quantum leap.

Sanja Milosavljević: Quantum leap. That’s right. Daria, do you want to tell us what your value is? New? Personal, for example.

Darija Danoksić: That I gained?

Sanja Milosavljević: Yes, for example, that was brought to you last year.

Darija Danoksić: Well, “you can do it by yourself”.

Sanja Milosavljević: You can do it by yourself. It’s very nice. I don’t know if you’ve come up with it now, or if it’s already existing, but it’s really nice. It’s very strong – you can do it by yourself.

Darija Danoksić: Yes, during our conversation. It could really be the copyright for our story. Regarding mentorship.

Sanja Milosavljević: We have a copyright, just so you know.

Darija Danoksić:  Yes, just a domain. To buy it. But I think that is empowerment, at a time when really all of humanity has faced the fact that we can all disappear. At least what is valuable to me can disappear overnight. And then when you realize that it didn’t happen, and when you realize that there are some people with whom you can exchange that positive energy and create some value in the middle of that madness, even if it’s not material, I really think that this is still virtually and at the level of the idea, we really managed to turn it to some of our members, and they are all mentors, we all call ourselves mentors, we really gave that new value. Sincerely, from the heart.

Sanja Milosavljević: That is really nice.

Darija Danoksić: And yours?

Sanja Milosavljević: My value? I don`t know.

Darija Danoksić:  You don`t know?

Sanja Milosavljević: I do not know. For me, last year was too stressful and I had too much to work. Since I am from the food industry and there was no stopping there. It is that one industry where there was no stopping. I didn’t have time to make a break and I even accelerated. In the seventh gear, not in the fifth gear. So, for me, the new value is not to sound pathetic, but I have preserved my mental health, that’s it. That’s it- all that engaging in insisting on mental health might be a new value to me. Because I used to take some things for granted and then at some point, I realized how important it really is to me. And nothing else. Honestly – that mental hygiene and that mental health is more important to me than a cut on my arm or I don’t know, a fracture. It’s really true for me – so that’s it, but I didn’t have that time to make a break and get out of the world a bit. But thank you, no one asked me to say anything regarding that, yes. This, dear people, you have listened to and watched two beautiful ladies, Katarina and Darija. I enjoyed it endlessly I hope you will too. Follow us on Facebook, on LinkedIn, on Instagram, you can always subscribe to our YouTube channel, just type Mondopreneur. Stay good, stay in good health and see you in a week.

Sanja Milosavljević: Dobar dan, dobri ljudi, Moje ime je Sanja Milosavljević i ja ću biti vaša voditeljka danas. Danas imam baš specijalnu situaciju zato što prvi put otkad vodim ovaj podkast imam dve gošće. A kroz naš razgovor ćete zapravo shvatiti zašto je važno da zapravo obe budu prisutne u jednoj epizodi. I razgovaraćemo o najrazličitijim stvarima ali to ćemo da ostavimo za malo kasnije. Ceo ovaj projekat održava američka ambasada u Beogradu u Srbiji i hvala im na tome. Zato što nam daju šansu da čujemo najrazličitije priče najrazličitijih interesantnih ljudi koji se bave najrazličitijim stvarima. A cilj nam je zapravo da osvetlimo iz više uglova neke probleme koji su nam možda zajednički ili neke prepreke koje su nam zajedničke i kojih možda nismo ni svesni. Ali kad čujemo druge ljude da su prošli kroz isto ili možda slično bude nam lakše i možda nađem neko rešenje, rodi se neka ideja. Tako da hvala im na tome. A moje današnje gošće su Darija i Katarina. I meni je jako drago, pogotovo što su se stvarno potrudile, Katarina je juče slavila rođendan. I potrudile su se da dođu i da podele sa vama i samnom njihove priče. Pa, drage dame hvala vam što ste pristale da dođete i da učestvujete u ovom projektu, da podelite vaša znanja i vaše ekspertize. Ja bih vas zamolila da nam se predstavite – kako se zovete, odakle ste, šta ste na primer po obrazovanju, na koji način vaše formalno obrazovanje utiče na ono čime se danas bavite, da li vas je odredilo ili se bavite nečim totalno drugim. I na primer koji vam je hobi. Pa, izvolite. Darija, hoćeš ti?

Darija Tankosić: Hoću, hvala Sanja na ovom pozivu. Vrlo interesantna tema i vrlo interesantni “buliti” za razgovor. Pa evo moje ime je Darija Danksoić i politikolog za novinarstvo i informisanje sam po obrazovanju. A koliko me to odredilo u mom današnjem preduzetničkom poslu, pa mislim da me je negde profilisalo. Jer radeći prvo kao novinar a onda ušavši iz čistog entuzijazma 90-tih u tadašnju vladu u vreme promena, ne mogu da kažem da sam radila baš u politici. Pre bih rekla da sam radila u nekoj tako društvenoj misiji. Radila sam na kampanjama po Srbiji i čini mi se da me taj neki deo moje karijere odredio u smislu da sam na najbolji način upoznala zemlju u kojoj živim i kojoj radim. Posle tog izleta da tako kažem u državnu upravu i politiku, bila sam i u korporaciji jedno dve godine u robi široke potrošnje. Tu sam se upoznala i sa marketingom i ušla malo ozbiljnije u komunikaciju. Moram da kažem da su sva moja prethodna znanja bila jako važna, ja sam poznavala i kako to parcipira druga strana i kako onda ja to da plasiram da bi imalo najbolje moguće efekte. I ono što je jako bitno, mislim da me tu- tu se rodila velika ljubav upravo prema marketingu i komunikaciji. Evo 13 godina sam u nekom svom privatnom biznisu napravila sam svoju agenciju, bavim se konslatingom u oblasti razvoja i prošla sam različite oblasti kao što rekoh od robe široke potrošnje, mode, poljoprivrede – tu sam upoznala Katarinu – i tu ćemo se nas dve spojiti sa našim različitim obrazovanjima i evo da preskočim onda nabrajanje klijenata i oblasti u kojima sam bila, pomenula bih dve stvari na kojima Katarina i ja sada već aktivno zajednički radimo. To su dva da tako kažem projekta proistekla iz pokreta mojih inovacija i sa idejom da spojimo preduzetništvo, mlade ljude, inovacije, ovo novo vreme tehnološke revolucije koje dolazi. Da pomognemo pre svega preduzetnicima da brže uskoče u taj neki vagon koji sve brže i brže juri, i projekat “Moja Mentorka” gde se spajamo upravo mi dame da pomognemo jedne drugima i tu smo se i nas tri upoznale. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Jeste, što je meni jako drago. 

Darija Tankosić: Takođe. I evo ja bih tu stala i dala reč…

Sanja Milosavljević: E, a pitala bih te samo nešto pre nego što nastavimo. Samo da mi prokomentarišeš, dosta se priča o inovacijama. I svi koriste, sad je to ono “buzzword”, jedna od “buzzwords”, ali da li mi uopšte znamo šta je inovacija i šta sve se podrazumeva pod inovacijom? Gde smo tu? 

Darija Tankosić: Pa mislim da sve više ljudi razumeju šta je to da- izašli smo iz tog nekog mindseta da se to odnosi na tehnološke inovacije. Mislim da je ova korona nekako proširila znanje uopšte o tom fenomenu ili pojavi inovacije. Inovativnost je više nekako stanje uma, da iskoračiš iz nekih ustaljenih formi poslovanja, funkcionisanja, rešavanja problema. Da gledaš širu sliku, da se informišeš, da koristeći ova nova sredstva komunikacije imaš mogućnost uvida u mnogo širi dijapazom alata koji su ti dostupni. Evo kada krenemo u razgovor sa Katarinom videćemo, mislim da je danas ono i poljoprivrednicima koji su u nekim srednjim godinama danas dostupna tehnologija u smislu vrlo ozbiljne pomoći i na samoj njivi, a da ne pričamo o nekim našim poslovima koji su da tako kažem malo sofisticiraniji i gde možemo mi danas iz svoje sobe da radimo vrlo, vrlo ozbiljne poslove i da vršimo uticaj na ozbiljan deo javnog mnjenja s onim što radimo. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Hvala ti. Hvala ti, hvala ti zato što dosta se priča, dosta se koristi i sad neko ko je upućen on zna, njemu je jasno, razgraničio je šta je, koji su dometi, koji su alati, a onda mi se čini da oni kojima je namenjena zapravo inovacija često možda i ne shvataju da možda već rade nešto što je inovativno. Da im je možda biznis model inovativan, nisu svesni da su već ušli u inovaciju. Hvala ti. Katarina, molim te.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Evo, moje ime je Katarina Jelisavčić, iz Beograda sam, diplomirani inženjer poljoprivrede, završila sam Poljoprivredni fakultet u Zemunu i nekoliko specijalizacija iz različitih oblasti i kako kvaliteta, organske proizvodnje. Imam 11 licenci što se tiče sistema integrisanog menadžmenta i sistema kontrole kvaliteta i tako to je neko moje da kažem najosnovnije obrazovanje. Karijera vrlo neobična. Počela sam nekako eto slično u vladi Srbije 2000-tih godina kada sam se bavila strategijom razvoja poljoprivrede Srbije i onako imala priliku da u tom trenutku apsolutno upoznam našu zemlju jer sam za nekih godinu dana prešla 120 hiljada kilometara i obišla preko 350 sela Srbije. Gde sam kroz raznorazne edukacije poljoprivrednika, formiranja poljoprivrednih zadruga, udruženja i tako dalje negde opipavala već tada puls i malo zalazila u tu granu koja je u tom trenutku bila vrlo nepopularna u Srbiji. Nekako me put dalje odveo do korporacije i tako da sam u PKB-u provela skoro 6 godina na poziciji zamenika generalnog direktora, i direktora razvoja kvaliteta i novih tehnologija i nakon eto da kažem te dve stvari uvek sam želela da imam nešto svoje. I nakon toga sam ušla u preduzetništvo gde sam otvorila svoju firmu i bavim se konsaltingom u agraru, prevashodno u oblasti kvaliteta i implementacije standarda koji su potrebni u poljoprivrednoj proizvodnji Global GAP čuveni – Good Agricultural Practice koji jeste suštinski standard na primer kao što kažemo HACCP u prehrambenoj industriji i pićima tako je i ovaj standard bitan u kontroli kvaliteta svežeg voća i povrća. I naravno Food Safety standardi koji su vezani za distributivne centre, preradu i tako dalje i naravno ovaj neki vrhunac je taj gde pomažem našim proizvođačima iz cele Srbije da svoje proizvode lakše plasiraju kako u te distributivne centre, tako i distributivnim centrima na ino tržištima. Pored svega toga naravno Darija i ja kao što je rekla radimo na novim projektima i uvezane smo dosta i sa fondovima, pa malopre kada ste pričali- kada si rekla za američku ambasadu, tako i mi učestvujemo na jednom projektu USAida i već vezani smo kako za američku ambasadu, tako i za sam USAid preko koga uvek imamo nešto, neki projekat na kome smo uključeni. Pa trenutno je taj projekat konkurentno koji traje već nekih…

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa, 4-5 godina, da. Kako, od 2016. do 2011.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Tako je, tako je. Od ‘17. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, da, tako je. Meni je nešto u glavi, vidiš ‘18 ili ‘17 ali to sam- to uopšte nije ni važno. Koliko su naši poljoprivrednici, ali mislim na one sitne, znači ne na ona velika na primer gazdinstva koja imaju, ne znam i mehanizaciju i koja su već negde tu na- ne mogu da kažem da su srednja preduzeća ali već imaju dosta razvijeni ono- razvijena gazdinstva i plasman svojih proizvoda. Koliko je teško sa malim gazdinstvima raditi? Jel oni shvataju koja je to dodatna vrednost ako dovedu u red neku onako- makar imaju popis sirovina. Ako vode računa- koliko je- koliko im je to blisko? Zato što znam da kod nas tradicionalno “seljak”- mislim, ja ne mislim ništa loše o tome, nego oni stalno imaju i govore “Nas neko hoće da prevari” i stalno su u tom nekom strahu i ja razumem taj strah, taj strah je delimično opravdan. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Ali samo delimično. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Delimično. Ali koliko su spremni? Koliko se lako dogovaraju?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Ovako, ja ću biti surova u mom odgovoru. Zato što sam godinama u tom poslu i zato što posmatram proizvođače bukvalno duže od zadnjih 15 godina. Došlo je vreme poslednjih 7-8 godina kada poljoprivreda kao privredna grana se posmatra kao i svaka druga privredna grana. Znači najjači, najuporniji, najobrazovaniji i ljudi koji poljoprivredu doživljavaju kao svoju profesiju će opstati. Ti mali koji “kukaju” – kad moram da iskoristim tu reč – su ljudi koji nikada neće shvatiti da svaštarenje i to ako imaju 20 ari, ne znam- to je- i to je već ozbiljna nečega. Ili 2-3 ovce, 3 koze, 1 kravu, sebe doživljavaju poljoprivrednicima. Ne nisu, to su klasična seoska domaćinstva koja imaju tih nekoliko da kažem elemenata za preživljavnje. I to je-

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, ne prave viškove, nego prosto…

Katarina Jelisavčić: I to nije poljoprivreda. I to nije ciljna grupa kojom se ja više bavim. I ne želim više da se bavim. Kažem, vraćam se na to da možda surovo zvuči, ali to nam je užasno iscrpljujuće. Ti ljudi vas ne mogu da razumeju zato što prvo ne prate trendove, ne prate razvoj, nisu razvojno orijentisani, a očekivanja su im prevelika. Ima regiona u Srbiji koji su vrlo, vrlo specifični po tom pitanju i gde očekuju da recimo malinu koja neke autohone sorte od pre 40-50 godina imaju na nekih 20 ari i očekuju da imaju cenu maline od nekih 3,5-4 eura kada je ona u sezoni, a vraćamo se na nove tehnologije, na inovacije i na ono sve što pričamo, pa pričamo o nekim novim asortimentima koji su jako važni, gde imate konzumnu malinu novih sorti poput kvanze, ovaj- nije ni bitno, drugih novih sorti. Gde zasadi na hektaru, dva, tri i ljudi koji mnogo više su naravno investirali i to im je biznis i time se bave. Tako da ja sam uspela poslednjih par godina da vrlo razgraničim ko su- kad kažem poljoprivrednici i uopšte da vidim koju reč treba koristiti u tom bavljenju poljoprivredom- 

Sanja Milosavljević: Odlično.

Katarina Jelisavčić: U odnosu na one tradicionalne svaštare. Eto, to. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, to ja- to se nekako slažem. To se donekle poklapa i sa mojim iskustvom rada na terenu. Kada ste svaštar prosto ne možete da stignete ništa. I to može da se preslika i na svakodnevni život – ako radite trista stvari vi nigde ne možete da budete najbolji. Mislim, nemoguće je, ne možete da postignete to. A njima to deluje kao eto – imamo malo to, imamo 2-3 ovce, imamo neku zemlju, možda imamo 2-3 dunje i tako. A nikako da stvore višak u stvari koji bi bio konkurentan na tržištu. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Tako je, tako je, da. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa dobro, gde smo sad? Koliko je- koliko se tih naših poljoprivrednih gazdinstava odlučuje da malo ipak ulože u bolju mehanizaciju, nove tehnologije, u ne znam, kvalitetnije pesticide, u kvalitetnije hemikalije koje će da se koriste. Gde korist svakako- ne možete da napravite tone ako ide na okopavanje samo. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Pa zaista možemo da se pohvalimo da je poljoprivreda zaista doživela najveći, ono- kako da kažem 

Sanja Milosavljević: Rast i skok?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Rast, da. I uspon, u odnosu na sve ostale privredne grane. Danas, eto posmatram- 15 godina sam na terenu – to je nešto što sećam se pre 15 godina to su bile ono žitna polja, neke žitarice, nešto se to- sad da prođete Srbijom to su voćnjaci pod protivgradnim mrežama, pod sistemima za navodnjavanje i to se zaista vidi. To se zaista vidi. Ozbiljan pomak se vidi. U poljoprivredu je ušlo mnogo novca iz nekih da kažem privatnih resursa. U poljoprivredu su ušli neki ljudi koji su da kažem iz drugih branši. Znači ljudi koji su obrazovani, koji su edukovani, koji su ušli u poljoprivredu da bi im to bio biznis. I tu se desio ozbiljan pomak. Znači to su ljudi koji se bave inovativnim tehnologijama, koji se bave naravno vrlo kontrolisanom proizvodnjom, koji vrlo vode računa o tretmanima i koji će pesticidi- ja se baš time i bavim – to je neki da kažem moj ključ posla. A to je da vodim računa o kontroli kvaliteta svake voćke. I povrća. Tako da ozbiljan se pomak desio, i to isključivo u biljnoj proizvodnji. Stočarska proizvodnja nije još dosegla neki da kažem ozbiljniji pomak, a to nije doživela opet zbog loše kreirane strategije razvoja poljoprivrede Srbije. Znate, stočarstvo je oblast gde- koja iziskuje podršku države koliko god se to priča ne, jeste. Govedarstvo, mlečno govedarstvo, kravlje kao jednu fabriku ozbiljnu on mora biti podržan od strane države na ovaj ili onaj način. Tako da ne bih sad da se ne rasplinjujem, ali to je tema koju ja… 

Sanja Milosavljević: To je svakako tema za ono- 

Katarina Jelisavčić: To je tema o kojoj može mnogo da se priča i baš da se ide iz epizode u epizodu. Tako da današnja tema je nešto drugo i mislim da treba da se okrenemo baš tome kao žene preduzetnice i svakako jedna i druga imamo možda neka vrlo neobična i specifična iskustva i kako se nosimo sa time kroz posao kojim se bavimo. 

Sanja Milosavljević: A to je upravo i moje sledeće pitanje nego mi je ovo- meni je ova prethodna tema jako- lično mi je jako interesantna i onda moram da izvučem što više. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: To ćemo sledeći put.

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, da, da, to ćemo u nekoj sledećoj. 

Darija Tankosić: Ja samo izvinjavam se da se nadovežem na jedan zaključak koji smo Katarina i ja izvukle iz svega ovoga što je ona sada pričala. Došli smo do te ključne tačke gde se desio taj pomak. Kako je to poljoprivreda krenula gore. Menadžment, profesionalni menadžment je ušao u poljoprivredu i to ne kao hobi. Oni su napustili svoje poslove u korporacijama neka sredstva i neke novce koje su uložili, zaradili, oni su ih uložili. I postavili su neke standarde. I samim tim su se pojavili i eksperti koji koji nude- znači sad Katarina kad dođe i kaže kao kooperativni model poslovanja to više nije ono, ne znam, gomila nekih čudnih reči. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Nego već je poznato, da. 

Darija Tankosić: Tako je, tako je. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa to je- to je sjajno. 

Darija Tankosić: Pa eto to je, samo to bih malo dopunila.   

Sanja Milosavljević: Hvala ti Darija. A hoćete sad da me- sad me stvarno interesuje kako je biti žena preduzetnica na primer u tvojoj branši i pogotovo kako je- koja se možda nekako tradicionalno i vezuje za žene, znači ima jakih muškaraca, ali ima i jakih žena i to nam je već poznato i pristupačno. I da nam Katarina kaže kako je to biti ono – žena preduzetnica u jednom sektoru koji je čini mi se tradicionalno ono – muška sfera. Hoćeš ti, Darija?

Darija Tankosić: Dobro meni će biti malo lakše da odgovorim na pitanje nego Katarini. Pa sa jedne strane je što kažeš lakše, ne suočavaš se sa prvom predrasudom – žensko u tom poslu. A sa druge strane mislim da generalno biti žena u ozbiljnijem bilo kom biznisu ima ovako…jer koliko god mi i da smo napredni kao civilizacija i kao društvo, uvek se nosimo sa prvo nekim predrasudama u odnosu na ženski pol, a onda s druge strane i sa tim nekim uvreženim mišljenjem da žene ne mogu toliko da potegnu. To uopšte nije tačno. Mislim stvarno, to mogu da kažem ja, zaista sa ženama sam u mom poslu imala najmanje problema sa tim da se posao završi. I nekako taj mindset u stvari, to poimanje da je posao celina i da postoji početak i postoji kraj. Mislim da je to nekako najveća vrednost te ženske energije u poslu da tako kažem.  Iono što je meni jako drago – ne bih sada baš da imenujem, ali i kod nekih naših ozbiljnijih privrednika, vrlo često možeš da pročitaš ili čuješ u nekim njihovim intervjuima da kažu da su im najbolji saradnici zapravo žene i da je negde njihov uspeh upravo u tome što su stubovi njihovog sistema žene menadžeri. Tako da ja zaista ne bih da zvučim sada onako pro feministički preterano, ali moć ka ženama u svakom pogledu. 

Sanja Milosavljević: A što da ne, ja isto mislim, ja se slažem – neću imenovati ali znam na koga misliš. Ja se slažem zato što mi žene imamo specifičnu prvo emocionalnu inteligenciju razvijeniju možda- malo smo više u kontaktu same sa sobom i našim emocijama nego- muškarci su logični, onako racionalni. Znači razumemo proces – to što si rekla, početak, sredina i kraj, i težimo da završimo- mislim težimo da se zaokruži celina, tako da možda jeste to- a imamo tu empatiju, imamo razumevanje za druge, možemo da vodimo timove vrlo uspešno i tako. A Katarina, kako je kod tebe? To je stvarno- sektor poljoprivrede je stvarno dominantno čak i u mojoj glavi, znači to nije moja predrasuda nego ja ljude koje poznajem iz tog sektora da se bave time stvarno su muškarci. I sad kako je tebi? Ti uopšte tako sitna, nežna, ono, izgledaš krhko, kako je to bilo, kako se nametneš?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Uh, pa…urođeni talenat. Ovaj, to je priča koja zaista iziskuje posebnu emisiju jer je preinteresantna. Moja borba i moje- da kažem moje probijanje predrasuda koje su vladale i vladaju i dan danas u Srbiji poput ljudi koji su u oblasti agrara i koji su- nema veze da li su inžinjeri, doktori nauka ili šta su, predrasude postoje. Znate, uvek ono zamišljamo inžinjera kao nekog ono – velikog, krupnog čoveka i neku tetku onako- naravno se izvinjavam što pominjem tetku, ali ovaj-

Sanja Milosavljević: Znamo na šta misliš.

Katarina Jelisavčić: I onda se pojavljuje jedna mala plavušica ja sam sigurna verovatno su svi gledali onaj film pravna plavuša. To je jedan od mojih omiljenih filmova, verovatno što sam se potpuno identifikovala. A to je ono kad se jedna mala plavušica tako pojavi u potpuno jednom svetu koji ni ne zna kako to malo plavo biće izgleda u javnosti. Eto tako sam ja prolazila kroz moj razvojni put. I samo ću jedan detalj da vam ispričam, i na osnovu tog detalja će sve da vam bude jasno. A danas sam ovde gde jesam zahvaljujući jednoj mojoj vrlo- upornosti. I da kažem tog ulaska u sebe da znam koji su moji aduti. Ja sam baš to što sam mala plava iskoristila kao ozbiljan adut u oblasti kojom se bavim. Zato što nema malih plavih u oblasti poljoprivrede. Eto, to je nešto što- jedan detalj ću vam ispričati radeći u vladi Srbije i baveći se poslom gde sam špartala po celoj Srbiji. I u početku kada su me ljudi prosto viđali da dođem u jedno domaćinstvo koje se bavi stočarstvom i tako dalje. I kada me vide na kapiji onako me samo pogledaju, kao…ko si ti? Šta ti znaš? I onda sam se ja dovijala i razmišljala kako ja da- nije dovoljna priča, nije dovoljno to što ću ja njima ispričati. Ja sam ovako uradila. Ja sam fino u svoje koferče spakovala moj mantil, moje čizme i opremu- kao radnu opremu. Dolazila na gazdinstvo, ulazila u štalu, davala stručne savete kakvi su to mikro-klimatski uslovi u objektu gde se nalaze krave, i onda postavljala osnovna pitanja – Izvinite, da li znate pravilno da pomuzete kravu? I onda su me oni onako- ovako se povuku i kao “Bože, naravno”. A ja kažem “A šta radite sa prvim mlazevima mleka?”. I onda oni onako te gledaju. Kažem “Molim vas, dajte mi crnu šolju”. I onda oni meni daju neku crnu posudu, ja pomuzem te prve mlazeve mleka, pogledam li imaju somatske ćelije, nemaju – da vas sad ne zamaram – ja njima pokažem pravilni postupak muže krave. I sad jedna mala plava koja je došla u selo sa nalakiranim noktima stavlja rukavice i ponaša se u skladu sa standardom, kvalitetom i kontrolom kvaliteta i njima demonstrira mužu. E to je bio potez gde sam ja kupila celu Srbiju, pa i američku ambasadu, gde se odjednom pričalo kako postoji jedna mala plava koja hara po Srbiji, zovu je Hajdi, i muze krave. 

Darija Danoksić: To je taktika.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Tako da sam samo htela da vam ispričam jedan primer šta je i kako sam ja opstala na tržištu kao mala plava Beograđanka, iz porodice mašinskog inžinjera i lekara. I kako sam ja to baš u toj branši kojom se bavim. Nimalo lako doživljavala sam sve i svašta. Doživljavala sam, naravno, bilo je tu mnogo, mnogo neprijatnosti, mnogo- kako da kažem- padova. Ali kad padneš, ustaneš, očistiš se i tako ideš dalje. Tako da iz ovog ugla danas mogu da kažem da sam vrlo ponosna, obožavam da radim sa ženama. Obožavam žensko preduzetništvo, obožavam žene koje prave neku- koje prave nešto vredno. Znači svaka od nas koja je u tome donosi neku vrednost. I mislim ako smo zajedno i ako smo sinhronizovane i ako se međusobno podržavamo, pomažemo, promovišemo jedna drugu na taj profesionalni način, da je to stvarno formula za uspeh i zaista formula za dalji razvoj i opstanak na tržištu. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Ja se stvarno slažem sa tim. Mislim, to je ono što jeste i lično meni blisko. I na čemu i sama radim. Hoćete sada da mi kažete onako kako vi uopšte doživljavate mentorstvo? Mislim, sad postoje tu neke definicije koje su evo već prihvaćene, svi znamo, ali šta je Darija za tebe mentorstvo? I da li ti imaš mentorku? Ili mentora? 

Darija Danoksić: Pa za mene je mentorstvo nekako deljenje. I ja kad pomislim na primer na mentorstvo i kada pomislim na ovaj naš projekat “Moja Mentorka”, ja tu nekako ne vidim mentora i učenika. Ja tu vidim uzajamno deljenje vrednosti. Jer kako smo mi to zamislili? Mi smo zamislili ne znam, neko ima neki proizvod, ali mu fali plasman. Ali mu fali ta neka svest o tome kako taj proizvod da razvije, kako da od njega nešto zaradi. On ima svoju vrednost, ali nije dovoljno samo proizvesti, podjednako važno je i prodati. I taj proizvod i promovisati. I onda ako je neko uspeo nešto da stvori, a ja sam uspela to da mu kažem u kom smeru da ide i kako da to promoviše, kako mi sad to da izvagamo šta je- šta je, je’l-

Sanja Milosavljević: Šta je čije. 

Darija Danoksić: Sad ja ne bih da protiv definicija, i suprotno od nekih definicija u kojima znači imaš mentora i imaš onoga ko prati mentora, ali evo ja sam rekla ono kako ga ja doživljavam i onaj deo tog procesa koji negde mene zanima. Tu smo se negde nas dve i spojile kao neki primer tog istog mentorstva. Ovaj, gde zaista u nekom trenutku je jedna možda ta koja dominira a u drugom trenutku je ova druga, tako da… ja bih rekla da je to inovativan akcenat na stvaranje nove vrednosti, eto. Za mene je to definicija – moja definicija. I onaj deo definicije koji mene zanima. 

Sanja Milosavljević: E, a znaš šta je meni interesantno? Mislim, ja imam i mentore i mentorke, imala sam a sad ću imati i u budućnosti. I najbolji odnos sa ljudima sam ostvarivala međuljudski- onaj mentorski deo kad odradimo – neko ti pokaže neki alat ili da ti neku informaciju i kao sad ti vidi malo šta ćeš s tom informacijom – ali sam najbolje te odnose i najviše sam iskoristila kapacitete i potencijale tog odnosa kad nije bilo sujete. Kad je bila isključena sujeta – i moja, da se otvorim, priznam da nešto ne znam, da negde grešim i tako, i takođe tog mentora mog da prihvati da i on dobija nešto tim odnosom- kaži. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: E, pa baš hoću da se nadovežem. Ja mislim- ali zaista mislim i ovo iskustvo koje ja imam u poslednjih godinu dana je takvo- ja mislim da preduzetnici, to jest preduzetnice, hajde sad pričamo u ženskom rodu – zaista nemaju sujetu. I ono što sam vrlo osetila-

Darija Danoksić: Uspešna preduzetnica. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Pričamo naravno o uspešnim preduzetnicama- pa ne možeš u preduzetništvu da nazoveš nekog preduzetnikom ako nije uspešan. Mislim, to je reč koja već onako negde se podrazumeva. Ali da, u pravu si. Poenta je u tome – šta je mentorstvo? Razmena, ovo što je rekla Darija. Znači mi smo svi jedni drugima mentori. I mentor, ja na mentora gledam- meni je Darija mentor. Ti si mi mentor. Znači to su- to je- to- ja vrlo prihvatam i sugestiju, i savet, i nova znanja, jer je to jedini način da mi idemo dalje i da napredujemo i da se razvijamo. Tako da današnji pogled na mentorstvo ja težim u tom pravcu i autoritetu iskreno. To je moj- kako da kažem, za mene je autoritet, to je reč koja mi je onako vrlo kako da kažem- zastarela. Ili već arhaična. Poštovanje da, ali opet se pitamo prema kome. Znači to kad pričamo o tom poštovanju i o strahopoštovanju. Ovo sve ostalo zaista doživljavam kao jedan vid mentorstva. Jer svi mi- ako si otvoren, i ako ovako pružiš ruke, znači tu daješ i primaš. I to je to. I sve je dvosmerna ulica. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Jao da, to jeste.

Darija Danoksić: I ja bih se nadovezala na ovo što je Katarinin deo gde govori o strahopoštovanju – šta je promenilo moj pogled na priču o mentorstvu i tome da vrlo često ne možeš da izmeriš ko kome- ko od koga uči zapravo. Kada sam krenula u ovaj projekat “Moja Inovacija”, u početku smo bili fokusirani na rad sa mladima. I u mom timu su bili zaista mladi ljudi. I u nekom trenutku učenja novih tehnologija, i kanala komunikacije, društvenih mreža i tako dalje – s moje strane pod njihovim mentorstvom da tako kažem je bilo onako potpuno jedno fenomenalno iskustvo. Gde što kaže jedan moj sjajan kolega “Učenik je nadmašio učitelja”, odnosno kad sam malo savladala alate – hop, kad sam shvatila kako je to izdašno i šta tu sve može da se radi, i kako sva ova znanja koja sam stekla i skupljala kako mogu da da ih delim. I onda kada sam shvatila da smo ušli u neki prijateljski odnos u kom zaista jedno od drugog učimo, a onda sam se potpuno u nekom trenutku šokirala kada sam shvatila da je on rođen kada sam ja bila na trećoj godini fakulteta. Ne, to je potpuno fascinantno. Sada evo Katarina i ja se družimo sa tom ekipom i ja bih sad da pozdravim Bojana – ćao! 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Ćao, Boki!

Sanja Milosavljević: Pozdravljam i ja Bojana!

Darija Danoksić: Da. Tako da evo, kada pričamo zaista o tom fenomenu koji zovemo mentorstvo, ja mu ne bih dala ni godine, ne bih mu dala ni titulara kao mi smo mentor i učenik. Ja bih mu pre svega dala dušu da tako kažem. Znači i odsustvo onog što si ti malopre rekla, to je odsustvo sujete. Znači jedan zaista onako zatvoren krug i taj ženski princip – daj da zatvorimo priču. Znači bitan je rezultat. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Jao da, mi žene- da. I ja isto volim da vidim – nešto sam počela, završila, rezultat i to je. 

Darija Danoksić: Pa šta da radimo, mislim od ručka pa na dalje mislim nekako nema- nemaš ti sad mogućnosti da sad ajde idem sad malo da izađem. Mislim, moraš da završiš. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, al dobro to je- vidim da je- ja to doživljavam kao jednu dobru osobinu. Kako ste vi zamislile da izgleda taj projekat “Moja Mentorka”, kako ćete da spajate, odnosno kako ćete da nađete idealne parove? Jer ne mora da znači- naravno da svako može svakome da bude mentor ili mentorka, ali kao što sam rekla – sa nekim ljudima ja nemam- ne kliknem, nemam taj- da. Kako ste zamislile? Kako ćete da matchujete parove? Da li je važno na primer da- evo na primer, Katarina je iz određenog sektora, i da li ćete je spajati sa nekom ženom koja ima specifičnu potrebu za njenim uslugama, na primer, ili za njenom ekspertizom, ili je to nevažno? Kako ste osmislile?

Darija Danoksić: Mi smo sam projekat pokrenule za vreme pandemije. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Odlično, otkrili ste svoje nove talente i- da. 

Darija Danoksić: Da. Uopšte nismo mogli da ostvarujemo taj direktan kontakt u kome bismo mi mogli da, je li, da se opipavamo kao ko kome odgovara i više smo ovako na principu nekih već postojećih poznanstava pomislile jao kako bi bilo super ove spojiti, vidi kako je ovo dobar proizvod hajde da promovišemo, vidi ovo ima dovoljno elemenata da od toga počnemo da pravimo brend i tako dalje. Ali ako govorimo o nekom ozbiljnijem poslu i ako hoćemo neki efekat, znači da radimo nešto slično onome što ti radiš već dugi niz godina, zaista to ne može bez neke podrške tih nekih institucija koje omogućavaju tu logistiku. I prva faza projekta svakako mora da bude mapiranje. I to po određenim lokalnim zajednicama, ili oblastima, i evo ako mogu sada da otkrijem, krenuli smo sa projektom-

Sanja Milosavljević: Molim te, reci 

Darija Danoksić: Sa privrednom komorom, videćemo kako će to da izgleda, čekamo, pozdravljamo ih sve one koji nas sada vide, bilo bi lepo-

Sanja Milosavljević: Pozdravljamo ih sve, da. 

Darija Danoksić: Da, sve smo uključene u tu priču. Tako da eto ako verujete u nas, podržite nas. 

Sanja Milosavljević: E, ja se slažem s tobom, ja mislim da super je da postoji pojedinačna inicijativa, neko mora da povuče, neko mora da pokrene, ali bez jedne onako institucionalne pomoći, podrške, da znate da imate partnera koji je dovoljno jak i moćan da je uvezan sa ljudima koji zapravo donosi neke odluke – mislim da projekti koji nemaju takvu vrstu podrške ne da su osuđeni na propast nego da mnogo duže traju, mnogo je teže ga sprovesti odnosno i sprovesti od početka do kraja. Pa dobro, a kako će izgledati taj- kako će se te žene okupljati? Kako ste- hoće to biti, ne znam, na mesečnom nivou, na nedeljnom nivou, kako će to biti? 

Darija Danoksić: Pa sad ti očekuješ da ti ja kažem nešto što treba da bude početak marketinške kampanje. To ne mogu. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Hajde reko malo samo da zagrebemo. Ne zato što mi je- hoćeš ti da-?

Darija Danoksić: Mi od naših primera sad rada naših mentorki želimo da napravimo svojevrsne radionice o obuke. Koje ćemo zahvaljujući novim alatima učenja moći da podelimo. Znači svaka žena može iz svoje oblasti da pronađe i onlajn tu radionicu i evo sad si me naterala da kažem neke stvari. I da odemo u njihovu lokalnu zajednicu, ostvarimo dobre serijale, vrlo zanimljive, ne dosadne dokumentarne forme bez početka i kraja, nego vrlo jasno- sa jasnim koracima šta je potrebno da bi iskoračio iz te oblasti, a fali ti prodaja, plasman, dizajn, i ono što bih ja naglasila jeste veliki uticaj kreativnih industrija. I to je ja mislim ključ jer jednom slikom kažeš hiljadu reči. I svima je lakše – i da nekoga kupiš i da nekog nešto naučiš. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, a kad je žena stvarno osnažena? 

Darija Danoksić: Kada je samostalna. U svakom pogledu. 

Sanja Milosavljević: A što nam je to- to ja kažem kad ovako razgovaram- što ne kažem da nije nekad bio i moj problem. Mislim, nisam ja nešto sad fantastična ili bolja od nekih drugih. Ali kad smo to stvarno osnažene? Ja gledam neke žene koje su i uspešne i ne znam imaju i porodicu i prijatelje, ali ponekad izgube snagu i nisu do kraja- 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Kad su dobre ovde. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da. Kad su osnažene? Kad je to? Onaj trenutak?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Pa ja se izvinjavam što sam uletela ovako. Zato što baš pitanje ovih dana naravno kada punim taj neki rođendan koji je onako neki broj okrugao. 

Sanja Milosavljević: I lep. Ja se izvinjavam, ali to su lepe godine.

Katarina Jelisavčić: To je baš lep broj, da. Onda dolazi ono klasično preispitivanje. Mislim da svaka žena i stvarno imam odgovor na to zato što sam se ja pitala šta se to dogodilo. Jer sve ovo kada sam pričala o nekoj svojoj karijeri i nekom razvojnom putu, to nimalo nije bilo ni lagano, ni prijatno, ni- uh, sa mnogo nedostatka samopouzdanja, prosto te rešeta sa svih živih- a onda odjednom desi se nešto, neko čudo. Desi se neko onako bukvalno osvešćenje i ti prihvataš sebe. Mislim da je žena osnažena onog trenutka kada prihvati sebe sa svim svojim vrlinama i manama. I kada kaže da, to sam ja, i čuvena Ruška Jakić koja ujutru uvek kaže “Dobro jutro, lepotice”. To su stvari koje su zaista neizbežne i jako potrebne. I što ih ranije usvojiš, to ćeš pre biti osnažen. Ali, stvarno mislim da svako laže kada kaže da to može da se desi u nekim ranijim godinama ili preko noći. Prosto, rad na sebi i iskustvo. To su dve stvari koje te u jednom trenutku tvog života učine snažnom.

Darija Danoksić: Ali moglo bi brže. Ja tu moram da se nadovežem-

Sanja Milosavljević: Evo slušam. 

Darija Danoksić: Fale te prečice da kažem, sad mi se onako javila jedna krilatica – “Možeš sama”. Znači ne nisi sama, nego možeš sama. Mislim da je to osnaživanje žena, da ona može. Zato je ova priča i platforma fenomenalna, znači priča o preduzetništvu, zato što o čemu god da pričamo na kraju krećemo od egzistencije. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Naravno, i vraćamo se na nju. 

Darija Danoksić: Vraćamo se na nju, kao neki onako krugovi. Početak i kraj priče. Znači možeš sama. I mislim da i društvo treba da radi na tome i na osnaživanju žena da u svakoj oblasti mogu da budu prisutne, da su dobrodošle u svakoj oblasti, da nisu zavisne- nažalost, činjenice, brojke, papiri nam pokazuju da žene ne znaju od toga kada da idu u banku i da uzmu kredit, i da vrlo retko imaju imovinu na svoje ime i da imaju mnoge vrste problema da za svoju vrstu preduzetništva dobiju neku vrstu podrške ili-

Sanja Milosavljević: E, ali moram da- moram samo da dodam da se to stvarno menja i da sad postoje neke banke i postoje proizvodi koji su namenjeni samo ženama sa nekim finim kamatama, tako da to se menja malo.

Darija Danoksić: Pomera se to, jeste, volela bih i tu priču da promovišemo. Jer evo sada kada govorimo o mentorkama, to je takođe jedna od tema koja je nama jako važna. Znači, žene su čule za to. Ali, hajde da vidimo nekoga ko je prošao kroz to. A neko je u sličnoj poziciji kao i ona. 

Sanja Milosavljević: E pa to, to jeste. Mislim to jeste cilj i ovih naših razgovora. Jeste da vidimo da imamo slične probleme, imamo možda iste prepreke i nismo same i postoji jedan krug, jedna sigurna mreža u kojoj možemo da- na koju možemo da računamo. Dobro, ja bih – pošto nemamo još mnogo vremena – volela bih da pričamo o ovom jednom velikom projektu. Koji je meni totalno fascinantan zato što je sveobuhvatan. I to je i po vertikali i po horizontali. I obuhvatiće ono bukvalno sve. I biće naravno namenjeno svima, znači neće biti samo namenjeno ženama nego prosto namenjeno svakome ko hoće da napreduje, da uči, da radi, da stvara, da se razvija. Pričajte mi o tome. To je priča toliko fascinantna, al stvarno, ja sam uživala kada si mi jednom prilikom ispričala – od priče do onih video klipova, sve je apsolutno sjajno. 

Darija Danoksić: Hvala. Pa evo ti si jedna od osoba koje mi želimo da uključimo u taj veliki projekat. Pa si imala tu priliku da-

Sanja Milosavljević: Al samo da kažem ljudima da nisu zbog toga ovde, nego zbog posla kojim se bave, koji je važan za društvo.

Darija Danoksić: Da, hvala. Pa u pitanju je jedan lepo si rekla potpuno novi i za nas i dalje fascinantan projekat. Zove se Pametno Selo. Naša ideja je da na jednom lokalitetu sve ovo o čemu pričamo, plus vrlo ozbiljno razrađeni različiti neki biznisi zažive kao jedan pilot projekat jednog ekosistema koji će pokazati sve ovo o čemu mi danas pričamo kao nekoj neophodnosti u nekom međuvremenu. Koji će u sebi obuhvatiti od ekologije, održivosti, očuvanja biodiverziteta, preduzetništva, spajanja inovacije i biznisa, spajanje inovacije, biznisa i preduzetništva, novog inovativnog ruralnog turizma, regionalne saradnje, stvaranja jedne nove ekonomije zasnovane na ekonomiji znanja i ja bih rekla vrlo, vrlo važan element, a to je jedna ekonomija nove solidarnosti. Tako da ne mogu baš da-

Sanja Milosavljević: Zato ja kažem sveobuhvatan jer da, baš je sveobuhvatan. I ne želim nego da bude- šta je ekonomija znanja? 

Darija Danoksić: Pa, evo ovo o čemu mi pričamo.

Sanja Milosavljević: Zato što se- izvini, ali taj termin se- ne čujem ga baš tako često. 

Darija Danoksić: Pa zato što nije popularan. Zato što je- to je ekonomija koja je zasnovana na realnim elementima. Znači kada vi stvorite neku vrednost, znači zaista novu vrednost koja je izašla iz nekog rada, a nije stvar presipanja iz šupljeg u prazno. Ja ne bih tu sada nešto da ispadam kao neki ekspert u oblasti ekonomije ili kao neko ko je protiv priče u ciframa, bankama i o fondovima. Mislim, oni su jako važni. Ali reći neku brojku koja je uložena u nešto i pokazati u realitetu neku stvorenu vrednost i uložiti znanje da bi stvorio neku novu vrednost, e pa to je onako mnogo teže. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa mislim, da. Nego mi je-

Darija Danoksić: A ovde si imala neku priliku da se upoznaš malo detaljnije sa nekim našim projektom i da vidiš da u svakom od ovih elemenata koje smo zamislili zaista svaka nova vrednost nastaje iz neke inovacije, iz nečeg novog za šta planiramo da pozovemo sve inicijative za koje smatramo da zaslužuju da budu deo tako jedne velike regionalne priče. Da se uključe, daju svoj doprinos i na kraju krajeva profitiraju od tako nečega. 

Sanja Milosavljević: To je ona triple-win kombinacija koja i pojedinac i država i region. Nije samo moj interes i samo za mene nego baš je- baš kažem sveobuhvatna je priča. 

Darija Danoksić. Pa i to je tačno- izvinjavam se što te prekidam, to je tajna i silicijumske doline. Mislim, kako je ona napravljena? Suština je takva da ti na jedan lokalitet doveo ljude koji su inovatori u svojim oblastima. I oni svojom međusobnom komunikacijom vrednost spojena između dva inovatora i dve vrednosti koja stvori tu treću vrednost mnogo je veća nego vrednost između mene kao nekog učenika i nekog inovatora, mislim to je samo neki- neka nadgadnja na nešto što radim ja ili što radi on. Znači veliki broj relevantnih činilaca na jednom mestu, ajde sada-

Sanja Milosavljević: Lepo rečeno.

Darija Danoksić: Citiram jednog profesora koji mi je to objasnio a meni je bilo… wow. Ja sam zaista nije bilo bolje definicije. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Od toga. 

Darija Danoksić: Da, da, znači – ekosistem. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Ekosistem. To je nova-stara reč. Zapravo staroj reči dajemo novu vrednost. Katarina, kako je izgledala tvoja prošla godina? Koja je tvoja nova vrednost?

Katarina Jelisavčić: Moja prošla godina, verovali ili ne, nije se mnogo razlikovala od prethodnih. Iz prostog razloga što u toku pandemije prosto oblast kojom se ja bavim – poljoprivreda – nije mogla naravno- da sve bude u karantinu. Tako da ja-

Sanja Milosavljević: Ja čak mislim- izvini- mislim da je ona jedina i pored logistike i transporta poljoprivreda jedina radila.

Katarina Jelisavčić: Radi, tako je. Tako da sam ja prošlu godinu zaista onako poslovno vrlo lepo izgurala u smislu ništa se tu nije mnogo desilo drugačije. I profesionalno se nije ništa nešto mnogo promenilo. A ono što se promenilo i ta neka moja vrednost pa možda lična. Ono u smislu da sam imala vremena, što mi je jako prijalo i odgovaralo posle jednog užasnog tako burnog života. Ti imaš sada vremena da onako sediš sa sobom i pakuješ svoje fijočice. Tako da mi je taj period pandemije mnogo značio iz prostog razloga što središ glavu. Znači ono-

Sanja Milosavljević: Jao, to si lepo rekla. Središ glavu. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Popakuješ sve tamo gde mu je mesto, a onda plus kad to središ, onda radiš i na sebi pa se razvijaš u nekim pravcima koji su ti potrebni za karijeru. Tako da meni lično je to ta vrednost. I zaista to nešto što- i naravno nas dve smo imale u tom nekom periodu mnogo više vremena da iskreiramo neke projekte i sve ovo što nas čeka i sve ovo u šta planiramo da što profesionalnije i dublje uđemo. Tako da smo i nas dve fenomenalno iskoristile taj period. Eto to je- i onda kad ljudi onako prilično negativno reaguju na pandemiju, mi smo izvukle maksimum koji- ja slobodno mogu da kažem da sam ja potpuno druga osoba. U mnogo pozitivnijem smislu. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Pa to je baš lepo. To je baš snažno.

Katarina Jelisavčić: U odnosu na neki period pre toga.

Sanja Milosavljević: A jel misliš da ti je samo bio potreban odmor u stvari. Ono ručna, da se povučeš 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Da, bila mi je- fokus, vreme mi je bilo potrebno. Bilo mi je potrebno da imam vreme da sve ono što je tu negde u glavi i što ne znaš da li ti je prioritet ili nije prioritet i ne možeš ni da to sve izdefinišeš da onako lepo spakuješ. I ti kada to uradiš, onda si potpuno ono, odradio si jedno čišćenje. 

Darija Danoksić: Ja mislim da si ti zaboravila da kažeš da, ovaj- Katarina ja mislim da je prilično usavršila svoju ekspertizu u oblasti kooperativnog modela poslovanja. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Jeste!

Darija Danoksić: Stavila si akcenat na to. Za mene je to inovacija u oblasti kojom se ona bavi kao konsultant. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Tako je, hvala Darija, da. To jeste. Prosto ima toliko tema da ja zato sve nešto i-

Sanja Milosavljević: A hoćeš molim te onda i da nam kažeš nešto ukratko o tome? 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Pa kroz- opet se vraćam tu karijeru koja je vrlo šarenolika i gde sam razna iskustva u radu sa poljoprivrednim proizvođačima pa onda distributivnim centrima, pa i tim lancima i tako dalje, shvatila sam da jedna osnovna stvar koja nedostaje u našoj zemlji i jeste taj kooperativni model poslovanja. Da bi jedan distributivni centar funkcionisao, a da bi dalje taj lanac funkcionisao, on mora da ima neke proizvođače, jel tako?

Sanja Milosavljević: Da.

Katarina Jelisavčić: E, pošto sve to je lanac, tako, karika svaka u lancu, distributivnom centru kao glavnom otkupljivaču svežeg ili smrznutog voća i povrća potrebni su proizvođači, to jest ljudi koji će da im proizvode određene količine potrebnog proizvoda. I tu je uvek veliki problem. Zato što između proizvođača i distributivnog centra nikada nije bila dobra spona. I onda sam ja razvila taj jedan model koji se zove kooperativni model poslovanja gde sam napravila malopre pomenutu reč dvosmernu ulicu, kako distributivni centar može da pomogne proizvođaču, a kako proizvođač onda dostavlja taj kvalitetan proizvod tom distributivnom centru. I sada je to niz elemenata i niz tema koji se tiču samog tog vida poslovanja i to onako prilično da kažem dobija neku svoju ulogu na tržištu. Naravno ne ide to niti može da ide brzo, to je bukvalno menjanje svesti kako kompanijama tako i samim proizvođačima.

Sanja Milosavljević: Mislim da je sa kompanijama teže zato što su to uvek malo kruće strukture. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Čak i ne, veruj mi, ne. Kompanije su vrlo, vrlo zainteresovane da imaju svoje kooperante koji će za njih da proizvedu po određenim standardima ono što im je potrebno. 

Sanja Milosavljević: A Lidl to savršeno radi, da?

Darija Danoksić: Da Lidl je zaista jako dobar primer. Al tu ima isto jedan važan momenat, koji smo nekako zajedinčki kroz ove naše projekte provukle i stavile bismo ga pod taj novi vid ekonomske solidarnosti a to je taj neki vozić u kom veliki vuku male. 

Katarina Jelisavčić: Da. 

Darija Danoksić: I tako se postiže ta akceleracija. I ako se vi tako napravite tu disperziju na te male, mnogo vam više energije treba nego kada vi napravite saveznike od velikih i onda zajedno vučete te male. I uvek moramo da imamo na umu da je Srbija najagrarnija zemlja u Evropi. Znači mi imamo skoro 50% stanovništva u oblasti poljoprivrede i šta nam nije jasno? Znači, to je nekako neka naša- ne, ali to je zaista naša najveća prednost. A ima još jedna činjenica da je 2018. godine izvoz od IT industrije bio veći od prihoda od poljoprivrede. I sad umesto da lamentiramo nad tim, uzmemo pa spojimo to. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Tako je, naravno. 

Darija Danoksić: Spojimo to, i spajajući dve najveće vrednosti srpske privrede, hajde da napravimo inovativne modele kako ćemo da napravimo taj- evo da iskoristim još neku tako zanimljivu reč- kvantni skok. Ali možemo, zaista. Novo vreme daje te mogućnosti. Ja mislim da ovo vreme donosi šanse, pre svega velikim sistemima ,državama i tako dalje – sistemima mislim je teže jer su veliki kitovi koje je teško pokrenuti, ali same države ako prihvate neki inovativniji pristup uz pomoć i fondova i velikih da tako kažem i svih ljudi dobre volje, mislim da samim tim uvezivanjem i pravljenjem ovako nekih modela o kojima mi ovde sve vreme pričamo, mi zaista možemo da napravimo taj kvantni skok. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Kvantni skok. Tako je. Darija, hoćeš da nam kažeš za kraj koja je tvoja vrednost? Nova? Lična, na primer.

Darija Danoksić: Koju sam stekla? 

Sanja Milosavljević: Da, ovo što ti je prošla godina na primer donela. 

Darija Danoksić: Pa, možeš sama. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Možeš sama. Mnogo je lepo. Ne znam da li si to sad smislila, ili ti se to već vrti ovako, ali baš je lepo. Baš je snažno – možeš sama 

Darija Danoksić: Da, tokom ovog našeg razgovora bi zaista mogao da bude copyright za ovu našu priču. Oko mentorki. 

Sanja Milosavljević: Zaštićeno je, samo da znate, da. Molim lepo. 

Darija Danoksić:  Da, samo domen. Da se zauzme. Ali mislim da je to neko osnaživanje u trenucima kada zaista celo čovečanstvo se negde suočilo sa činjenicom da bože pa mi svi možemo da nestanemo. Barem ono što je meni vredno može da nestane preko noći. I onda kad shvatiš da se to nije desilo, i kada shvatiš da postoje neki ljudi sa kojima možeš da razmeniš tu pozitivnu energiju i da u sred tog ludila stvoriš neku vrednost, čak i ako ona nije materijalna, ja zaista mislim da ovo što je kod nas još uvek virtuelno i na nivou ideje, mi smo zaista uspeli to da zavrtimo i nekim našim članicama, a sve su mentorke, sve se nazivamo mentorkama, zaista smo dale tu neku novu vrednost. Onako istinski, od srca. 

Sanja Milosavljević: E pa lepo, lepo. To je baš lepo. 

Darija Danoksić: A tvoja?

Sanja Milosavljević: Moja vrednost? Uf, ne znam. 

Darija Danoksić:  Ne znaš? 

Sanja Milosavljević: Ne znam. Meni je prošla godina bila prenaporna i previše posla. Pošto sam ja iz prehrambene industrije i onda tu nije bilo stajanja. To je ta jedna industrija gde nije bilo stajanja. Ja nisam imala vremena da povučem ručnu i da- ja sam čak ubrzala. U sedmu, ne u petu. Tako da za mene je nova vrednost onako da ne zvučim patetično, ali očuvala sam mentalno zdravlje, eto. To mi je- sve to bavljenje insistiranje na mentalnom zdravlju bi mi bila možda neka nova vrednost za mene. Jer ranije sam neke stvari uzimala zdravo za gotovo a onda sam u nekom trenutku shvatila koliko mi je zapravo samo to važno. A ništa drugo. Iskreno – ta mentalna higijena i to mentalno zdravlje mi je važnije od posekotine na ruci ili ne znam, preloma. Stvarno mi je to- tako da eto, to bi bilo, ali nisam imala to vreme da povučem ručnu i da se izopštim iz sveta malo. Ali hvala ti, niko me ništa nije pitao da ja kažem, da. Ovaj, dragi ljudi, slušali ste i gledali ste dve predivne dame Katarinu i Dariju. Ja sam beskrajno uživala nadam se da ćete i vi. Pratite nas na Facebook-u, na LinkedIn-u, na Instagramu, uvek možete da se pretplatite na naš YouTube kanal, samo kucajte Mondopreneur. Budite dobri, dobroga zdravlja i vidimo se za nedelju dana.