EP042: Peter Hopwood, International Public Speaking & TEDx Coach from United Kingdom

Sanja Milosavljevic: Good day, good people of the world, my name is Sanja Milosavljevic and I’m going to be your host today. You’re listening to and watching the Mondopreneur podcast, it’s a podcast dedicated to entrepreneurs from all over the world, but not just for them. It’s for everyone who wants to listen and see how other people are dealing with this new situation that we are all dealing with and to maybe find some ways to overcome those problems and to maybe spark some new ideas and to meet entrepreneurs from all over the world. This whole project is supported by the US embassy in Serbia, Belgrade and thanks to them we can share stories from interesting people from all over the world. My today’s guest is Peter and he is from Great Britain, but he lives and works- well, he lives in Croatia, but he works all over the world. So he is let’s say an example of a Mondopreneur. So, I hope that you’re going to enjoy our conversation. Hi, Peter – how are you? 

Peter Hopwood: I’m doing well, I’m doing great. How are you?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Well, as I mentioned before it’s finally nice weather in Serbia and every time it’s nice weather, hot and warm, I’m feeling great. So, I’m super-great now.

Peter Hopwood: Absolutely, I mean sunshine can make all the difference, can’t it? Even sunshine with, even when it’s not warm, sunshine can boost everything. But sunshine and warmth, it’s the best combination. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, I usually ask my guests to introduce themselves in short. Like what is their educational background, does it have anything to do with what they are doing right now, and what are their interests, what are their hobbies. So, can you tell us something about yourself?

Peter Hopwood: Okay, absolutely. So if we go right the way back now, my educational background is actually art. It’s actually design, graphic design art, went to art school, art college and I imagine that for me it was very much a time of observing. Observing everything around me, trying to make sense of everything, what people see and the emotions and feelings people have when they see something and the signal it gives you when you see those things. It was a time of really focusing on that. And so we- if we fast-forward to today, which- this has a lot to do with what I do today. So, really today as a speaker-coach, as someone who helps people find their stories, craft their stories and then deliver those ideas, those messages in the right way to create the right perception, this is really connected to what I was doing way back when. So, so essentially I help people to speak better online, so getting really good at Zoom calls, getting really good at creating that trust and connection between two people, two- 2D people through the screen. Which is really difficult, isn’t it? It’s really difficult often to create that connection and trust between two people on Zoom. So, I help people to create that presence, get closer to the perception you want online and naturally do this in person as well, as a TedEx coach and pitch coach, and literally helping people to share their messages in the right way.

Sanja Milosavljevic: So, you’re actually in the creative industry. As you said you were studying arts and now- this is kind of an art for me. Art in the sense artisanal, to help people shape their stories and to deliver them. So, that’s nice. Can you tell us something about exactly the thing you do. You said that you are a virtual coach and how is it- is it difficult to gain trust, to- that people can trust you that you are going to solve those problems and help them to overcome those- these Zoom- Cogito Ergo Zoom.

Peter Hopwood: Yeah, so really a year ago, more than a year ago we were just, all of us, forced – and we were forced – to use this medium, to use this format. To connect through this format. So our meetings, our- if it was selling, we had to do it through the screen, if it was an intro call, webinar, a meeting, leading your team or teams. We kind of had to do it, we had to change and do it through this screen. Which is very different, a very different skillset than when you’re in person. Right? Because there are many things taken away in terms of what we see, what we feel, what chemistry we can create. If I may, you Sanja – you’re in Belgrade for example, we meet, we have a coffee, we chat, we get to know each other a little bit, I can see how you move, you can see how I move and you kind of get to know me quicker in person than here. But I still both those times, we still have to create trust within one another and respect one another and try to connect with one another. Whatever we’re doing, whether it’s something personal, chatting together as friends perhaps, or it’s something in terms of business, we still have to create that trust and emotion and connection. So, people that I work with- a lot of the clients come to me knowing they have to do this better, knowing that they have to get comfortable, really comfortable with this format. You know? Not something that is- that you have to do every day. We do it a lot, we do it all the time and everything we do a lot of, we tend to feel that we know how to do it. We know how to do it well. But that’s not always the case. Everything we do many times, our confidence often grows because we’ve done it many times, but again it doesn’t necessarily mean we are doing it right. And from what I see, what I hear, and from what a lot of clients tell me as well, especially people maybe that are leading teams, they see within their teams maybe the connection is not as good as it could be. The trust level isn’t coming through as good as it would if they were in person. A lot of salespeople  for example, maybe they’re really good at their jobs, they’ve got this charisma, they know what to say, how to say it and they know how to get- how to sell, essentially. But when it comes to on screen, it’s a different- completely different skillset. So you have to think about different skills and different behaviors-

Sanja Milosavljevic: Like what? Like what? Sorry, to interrupt you-

Peter Hopwood: I’ll tell you, I’ll tell you, absolutely, I’ll give you some tips right now. Just always remember – here on screen, time is much more important, is more valuable and we have less of it than in person. Okay, in person everyone’s time is valuable. Mine, yours, we have many things going on. But here on screen, our attention spans are a lot shorter. Anything that we look- any screen we look at, anything coming through that screen is usually designed to attract our attention, designed to get us to pay attention. Netflix, A movie. TV show. A pop video. Whatever it is, it’s designed to get- an app, even, on your mobile phone, it’s designed to keep your attention. So we’re now on screen and we have to keep other people’s attention quicker and we have to do it for longer than what we would do in person. So, that- what does that mean? That means that our messages have to be more concise. Our messages have to be shorter. Our messages have to be to the point. We have to really get people to feel something, to understand us, get us more- in a quicker sense than we would do in person. So that’s one thing. Also, when people- when you are looking through this screen, anything I see I’m making a snap-judgment about. So I’m looking at you right now, if anyone else can see this, I can see where you’re sitting, there’s a light to your right, you’ve got a wonderful microphone in front of you, I can see what you’re wearing and this gives me lots of signals. I can see probably it’s not a cold day today- as you said- I know it’s not cold, you told me. I can see by what you’re wearing, it gives me this impression that it’s warm outside and there’s a glow on your face as well. That’s telling me that you’re feeling good because of the weather probably. You know. So all these signals are coming through. And we have to share these signals- share signals that really gets closer to the perception that we want to get. Right? So, everything we do with our face, our body language, how we look into the camera, all of this we’re kind of focused on more. This is a more intimate- this is more intimate than it would be in person. I wouldn’t probably be looking at your face as much as I am now, or we wouldn’t be focused on each other as completely as we would be if we were in person.

Sanja Milosavljevic: This is interesting because I never thought that this kind of conversation is more intimate than when you’re actually in- 

Peter Hopwood: Well, the thing is we’ve got more- there were more things- in person, there are many things going on. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Distractions.

Peter Hopwood: Absolutely. Background, where we are, people walking past, wind, noises, sound, whatever it is. Here, it’s just me and you. Two cameras, and we are- we have only- we’ve almost got an objective. You know. So this, on this Zoom call now, our objective is to have this conversation, try to share value, help people to maybe understand a few ideas I can share, that you can share as well. And by the end of it, they walk away feeling “Oh, that was- I enjoyed that conversation, and I’ve learned something”. Right? So we know that, and that’s what we’re doing. If it was in person, probably there’d be other things that pop in and time would go a little bit slower and we would be talking about other things perhaps. But here, it is a lot more intimate and as I was saying our time is really valuable and we have to get people’s attention. We can do that with a little bit of awareness of different things, awareness of what we look like, awareness of our background, awareness of how we move, awareness of our voice, how we sound. Because remember, our voice is like music. So music, when we listen to music it’s emotion, isn’t it? We’re art, right? Art. When we look at something, what we see equals some kind of emotion, right? Colors? Some kind of emotion. Sound? So, music? Same thing. Our voice is the sound. And it’s the same thing. What we hear evokes some kind of emotion. And we know it, we know people who have lovely voices, we know people who don’t have great voices. We know people who speak really fast with a high voice and we know people who are very calm with a lower, more deeper, credible, calming voice, right? So all of this can create an emotion on how we feel and how we make a decision about who we hear and what we hear. And so remember, who we hear – so who we’re listening to – about you. So my judgment’s about you. Or somebody listening now, they’re making judgments about me, about what they hear. They’re making complete judgments about you, Sanja. About what you- about your voice and what they hear you say. So with a little bit of thought and a little bit of awareness and working on those areas, we can kind of get closer to a better perception that we’re looking for. Yeah? 

Sanja Milosavljevic: I agree. How important is it, then, that emotional intelligence? I mean, it’s nice if you can just give people some skillsets like do this, do that and you’re going to reach your goal, but is it important that I- like I am your client – is it important that I have that kind of developed emotional intelligence? To be open to what you are teaching me?  

Peter Hopwood: Definitely. Absolutely. So, the first thing is- somebody that- let’s say I’m working with a client and my first- our first interactions – whether they were on Zoom or we meet in person – is really just often me listening to them. Listening to how they feel about everything, how they feel about themselves, how they feel about how people perceive them, how they- the story in themselves about who they are, the anxieties that they have, perhaps, and why. Where they want to be. So after working with me, where are we going to go, what steps do you think we would’ve achieved or what path are we on. So it’s- a lot of it is understanding the person and understanding if they are ready to be coached, ready to hear things perhaps that they don’t want to hear. Or ready to hear things that are constructive criticism that they need to move on, to get better and whether they want to accept that. So somebody who doesn’t want to- who feels they are already at the stage where they’re good enough or feels that they don’t need any improvement, or feels that they- you know, they’re good enough, probably- you know, they’re not the right people, sadly, to work with me. You know? So yeah, just- and also, the skill of listening is so, so important. So listening in terms of somebody who wants to learn these skills, or any skills, really, and also for me to listen. I really need to listen. So remember, for every- all good speakers, all good, strong speakers are often really good listeners. They listen to who they work with, they listen to themselves, they listen to those stories in their heads. They listen to them. They may not have to accept everything that they hear- because that story in our head, that voice we hear in our head is always the biggest voice we’ll ever hear, right? And often the biggest influencer in our heads, our own voice. And that’s difficult- it’s easy to say that, isn’t it, but it’s often difficult to navigate because we- some of our voices are really loud and we have to sometimes kind of not listen to that voice. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Or at least silence them a bit.

Peter Hopwood: Or silent it a bit, yeah. Knowing to say okay that’s enough for now, let’s listen to something else which is actually going to help us. So yeah, listening is a really big skill, a really important skill that certainly helped me through my career and it still helps me and it will continue to help me. And also, the people that I work with as well really be present and listen to feedback, listen to you know, that emotional- almost this emotional temperature that you’re presenting. They’re seeing that certainly in person it’s more difficult to do it online, but in person you create this emotional temperature in the room. It’s what you are creating by what you’re saying, by how you say it. By- you know, people are listening to you at that time, so you are- you dictate how that energy is in the room and it’s up to you to define it and to share it. So you can go for- if you’re feeling nervous, everybody else will slightly perhaps awkward. If you’re feeling- if you’ve got this high energy, most people in the room, their pulses will be higher as well. Not saying that the high energy is always needed, because often it’s not, but you do need some kind of energy.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Can you explain- sorry, sorry, you said something interesting. Can you explain that high energy is not always a good thing, it has to be a bit let’s say lower, or…

Peter Hopwood: Yeah, absolutely. So, energy comes in all different forms. So energy, just energy on its own, you can have a whole spectrum of energy. You can have hardly any energy, like really low energy, or there’s nothing coming through and right now, I’ve got, you know, the words are just coming out. It feels like I don’t care, it feels like- from your perspective and people listening, what am I doing here? Why am I here with you right now, Sanja? If you ramp it up a bit, right to the other scale, then it can be up here, so it’s really high and I’m really trying with my, you can see my body language and you can see my hands are coming up slightly here to my ears, actually. And you can feel that by what I’m saying and how I’m saying it I’m trying to create a bit more energy and when you hear my voice, it’s slightly faster, my voice is faster, my tone is higher, and there’s- it’s almost like there’s something going to come, something’s happening and something exciting is about to happen. Right? And I’m excited about it, right? I could go with that. Or, I could sort of go in the middle, where I’m slowing down and I’m quite calm, I sound calm, and what I say comes across, hopefully, as focused. So I know what I want to say. My pauses are coming after each phrase or a comma, I’m breathing after each phrase. I sound like I like- I’m excited, I am excited about what I’m about to say, and you can kind of hear that, you can hear the smile on my face. Funny phrase, isn’t it? Hear the smile on my face. How can you hear a smile? But you can. You can hear a smile, can’t you? You can hear the smile on my face. And it’s more focused and it’s calmer, it’s lower, deeper, credible voice. But I’m focused, because I want you to believe me and I want you to follow my words. And I want you to feel like- you know, I know what I’m talking about, I’m credible and something- this is serious, this is important and it’s a good thing. So that, that is kind of  like focused energy. So trying to get that focused energy, not most of the time, but you can mix it up. Sometimes you need a bit of higher energy, sometimes maybe slightly low when it’s a really maybe a serious topic or an emotional topic, bring it right down. But you really need to sort of choose the energy and define what kind of energy you want to share and what’s relevant to your audience, what do they need. What do they want, how will they- one example, for example is we’re working for a lot of conferences as a MC, as a host. Most people would think okay, you need to have a host with lots of energy, a host that has charisma perhaps and a host that’s confident. Those three things are good, but they’re not always needed all the time. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Can you explain, sorry? 

Peter Hopwood: Yeah. So at the beginning of the conference, that is the time when people are judging the conference a lot because it’s the first part. They’re judging me as the host, as the face of the event and they’re- they want to feel excited because it’s the beginning of the day. Maybe they’ve bought a ticket, maybe somebody else bought the ticket for them, but they’re there, they’ve invested their time to be there, they want to make sure they’re gonna get value. So I- so my role there is really to give good ,focused energy telling them why they’re there, telling them- or sharing with them what they’re gonna get from this, so by the end of this day or two days together, you’re gonna walk away knowing more about this, this or this, or feeling more confident in this, this and this. Or navigate the industry trends as they are right now in a more stronger and confident way, something like that, okay? But it’s energy. It’s good energy, feel good and you can again-  people will see the smile on my face and hear the smile on my face, okay? During the day, just before let’s say I present or introduce another speaker, and their speech, let’s say, is a very serious topic, or their speech is quite emotional, or their speech is actually the tone is- doesn’t need to be high energy. When I introduce that, I’m not gonna hit high-energy. I’m gonna have to calm down, and get people ready, emotionally, for what’s next. That’s the big job and certainly when you present, when you’re introducing speakers, let’s say. To get people ready, emotionally, for what’s coming next. If that next speaker- that next speaker might be a high-energy kind of jumping around, engaging, full of charisma type of speaker. Then my role then is to build it up, I build up that introduction, I get them feeling good, I get them feeling excited, I introduce the next speaker, his name, bang, he comes on stage and people are ready. At the end of the day, often, that’s the time where people have lots of information, lots of- overload, sometimes, of information. So what do they need? They really need almost like the summary of the best bits. Of the highlights to think about. So bring things down and just sharing a short, simple, very simple kind of overview in a very simple way they can understand to kind of remember. You know, anything which is simple, we can understand quicker and better and we can remember more. Anything complex, with big words, long words, long explanations is more difficult to remember and difficult to absorb. So really simple short sentences, get people thinking until they walk away with those simple ideas. So, that’s really how to gauge and define the energy that you have to share. So it’s not always- when we think of energy, often we do just think about this kind of duh-duh-duh energy and energetic kind of person. But it’s not that, it’s more about focused energy and choosing the right type of energy for the audience and for the context. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Thank you. Do you have any clients- or did you have situations where you just don’t accept the clients, or say I don’t want to work with you because I don’t-  I don’t know, I don’t like your energy, or you’re an egomaniac, or you’re- this is not going- you’re just going to waste my time, regardless of the money I can earn. Did you have any kind of situations like that?

Peter Hopwood: I’ve- so, okay. At the beginning of my career and I’m sure many people listening to this as well, it’s really difficult to say no, isn’t it? And you don’t really- you sort of accept everything. So everybody, every client, accept everything and then you learn, very quickly you learn that the energy that hassle that you’ve put into working with this person- because of different reasons, maybe they’re just simply- the connection is not there. And you feel maybe awkward, or they’re- they’re very critical perhaps. Or they’re not ready to be coached. They’re not ready, they’re not in the place in their mind that we were talking about early on. About feeling ready to accept somebody to help them move forward. Yeah? But you learn that over the years- you know, I’ve learned that working with people that want to be coached, that are open enough, open minded enough to absorb new ideas, these are the people that actually make me feel good. Make me feel that I’m doing…

Sanja Milosavljevic: Good things.

Peter Hopwood: In my mind of what I’m doing. So that’s really important to have. Because regardless of the money, regardless of how much they pay you. I don’t know, maybe if it’s really, really a lot of money. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Fair enough.

Peter Hopwood: Often, if- sometimes, you know- and the only way of knowing that is through experience and through those first meetings. You know, really asking the questions that will give you the answers that will help you decide whether that person’s right. You know? And they often doing the same, they’re often doing the same at the beginning. They’re probably looking at- they probably, you know, call out to me. Maybe they’ve contacted a few other speaker coaches, people in the same industry and at the end of the day it’s that connection that you have with that person, that potential client, which determines whether you’re going to work together. And as you know, some people are not right for you. Some people I prefer not to work with and it’s best that I refer them to my competition, even. Because I know that I couldn’t give them the things they need, specifically for them, and what they would appreciate, so some people appreciate- you know it as well and I’m sure as well many people who are listening to this, certainly entrepreneurs and people in business. Some people you can do as much as you can, share really valuable ideas, lots of energy and really gone over the- beyond the line of generosity to really help them get to where they want to be, and they really appreciate that. You do the same thing for someone else and in their mind, you know, maybe there wasn’t that grace, they maybe don’t appreciate it as much. And then there’s that balance and knowing that balance exists is a good thing. Knowing that- you know, different people will appreciate different things, but as long as you keep trying to give that value and set out at the beginning what you’re going to try and do, what you’re gonna give. Where you want them to be. And you know- that’s the main thing. So it’s like this inner idea in your head of the value you’re sharing and knowing that value and accepting that some people may not appreciate that value. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes. Like in life.

Peter Hopwood: Does that make sense?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yeah, of course. You mentioned the word ‘value’ many times. What- I know it’s a silly question and it’s a cliche now, but what are the new values for- let’s say your branch. Let’s say for your industry. 

Peter Hopwood: The new values? Can you…?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Like, what do you need to provide for your clients now? How did you manage to keep your clients, or how did you manage to gain new clients. Because last year nobody worked anything most of the time. Like if I- if I- sorry, but if I had the chance to be coached last year, I had the problem to go to a meeting, live meeting, and everyone was wearing masks. So, you can only see eyes, but I cannot see the facial expression- the whole facial expression. So that was the problem for me. And if I knew you, I would let’s say like you to teach me how to read other signs and how to close the deal. So what- how did you have to change? How your method has to change?

Peter Hopwood: Well I- absolutely, everything went online for me. Everything went online. And at the beginning, I was quite skeptical about it. Because I’ve only done some 25% of my coaching online. Everything else face to face. And you know, travelling a lot. And that suddenly stopped. And so it was a big shock for me and a big shock to the- to my finances, my business finances, you know. Really tough. But- and the sooner I- and I regret now. I regret not focusing more of what I’m doing right now at the beginning, the first couple of months. It took me six months to- which is a long time- six months to kind of realize hey, actually, I can really help people to get good at this. Get good at- taking the skills that I’ve already got and just transferring them and changing them and helping people to share the right signals online. Many are similar. There are things that are slightly different. So at the beginning I should’ve done it a lot quicker. But once I did, then it really got going and is really flourishing right now. Even better than before, actually, which is a really strange thing, but it’s a good thing. And we’re more effective now. We’re more effective. I can connect with more- I can have more clients throughout the day than I’ve ever had. The event industry as and MC and as a presenter, that is still kind of slowly getting back on track slightly. So I go to more studios where it’s just me in the studio. And a camera. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Oh, like hybrid versions.

Peter Hopwood: Yeah, yeah, so not really any audience, just the studio crew, camera, and that’s a professional studio, not beamed out to wherever. So, the effectiveness is a good thing, and effectiveness for all of us, anybody who wants to- let’s say, who wants to work with me, with you or with a coach, they have more options now to find more people. They can look online more, there’s more videos out there, there’s more- you can hear people more. Rather than just say maybe a website and a few videos before, today there’s pretty much- there’s podcasts, so if anyone is thinking about perhaps, you know, working with me, they can probably go to google, put my name in there and then lots of things will pop up. Podcasts- this podcast, maybe. Okay. My website is still under construction, but I’ve got all the other videos and things that will help you make up your mind. So for some people, they only need a little bit, some people might want to go through lots and lots and they look at everyone else, they look at the competition, and then that helps them make up their mind. Some people have to do that process. So i can give them that, I can give- it’s there, online if they need that. So, I think clients are more- not skeptical, but there are more people doing certainly what I’m doing today. There’s much- there are many more people doing it. More people are feeling more confident online, sharing their messages, so there are more people doing podcasts, like you Sanja. There are more people sharing their messages, more people creating videos, so…and there are more people that are coaches. Some of them – all different scale. Some of them feel confident enough that they can help people and they have really been helping many people or other ones that have been helping people for so many years and actually really taking the leap and starting their business, you know really creating a business on coaching, helping clients move towards their goals. So, I think there’s certainly room for everybody and doing everything online I can connect more even further. So I don’t actually have to travel there anymore. Although, I hope I will and I hope that will come back. I enjoy travelling. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: We all hope we are going-

Peter Hopwood: I love the adventure, the adventure’s cool and that’s great, but in terms of effectiveness, like the events, I can’t- I couldn’t do coach- I could do something like six coaching jobs in a month, if I travelled there, realistically. In a month, now, I can do double that. If I have to. So, yeah. Lots of challenges, but actually there are many benefits. Many good benefits. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Let’s say you are right now introducing yourself to the people from the Balkans. Is there- is there any kind of culturological differences between people- regarding your job, regarding coaching them. Is there any differences between people in Asia or people in Balkans or people in the UK, let’s say? Do you need to have a different approach to everyone or is this something universal that you’re doing? 

Peter Hopwood: I think there aren’t many things that are universal, to be fair. I think lots of thing are the same, people want to be listened to, we want to build up that trust, that connection, I need to show that I’m empathetic and I’m listening to what they needed to figure out and be clear on how I’m going to help them do that. Differences, I mean…okay, perhaps the first- one thing does come to mind. Just here in 21 years in the region. My kids are Croatian as well, I have a business here in Croatia and naturally in 21 years here, I love Croatians. Well, I love people from the region, so. One thing perhaps- but it’s changing and it’s getting better, certainly when I first arrived, there was this idea of often- in the Balkans, perhaps, there’s this sense of we don’t need help.

Sanja Milosavljevic: That’s why I’m asking. Sorry. But that’s why I’m asking you, yeah. Because we’re like the smartest people in the world. 

Peter Hopwood: Yeah, perhaps. No, not- maybe not the world, but I mean…yeah, we kind of know stuff. Yeah, we don’t have to have helpers, we’re cool. But the thing is, we all need help, all of us. You know? And it’s just- it’s a fine line between knowing or accepting that you need help and you want help to move forward, even if you’re in a good stage, you can can be a really good stage but it’s always good- so, the industry that I’m in, in terms of speaking, in terms of sharing messages, in terms of sharing your messages in the right way, we all need to improve. Even me at my stage, where I’m at, I have a mentor, another speaking coach, actually, and we help each other, because we both see things in each other that we don’t see ourselves. Right? So, yeah, to come back to your answer, yeah I think certainly in the Balkans, there’s this idea of do we actually need help, is the question that comes up certainly in the beginning and many times it’s been a barrier between me and working with them. And so when you’ve got that barrier, when you’ve got that question there, that kind of opens up the whole other ideas about value. So if I don’t need help, then the price that you’re sharing or the fee that you want from this has less value because they don’t need the help, you know. So I would say there’s that, but it’s changing, certainly changing, which is a good thing, and yeah. I was- what would you say? Would you agree with me? I don’t know tell me what you think.

Sanja Milosavljevic: No, I told you, because-

Peter Hopwood: As somebody from Belgrade. You’re from Belgrade, right? 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Yes, I’m from Belgrade. Like here in Balkans, I don’t like to generalize, let’s say. But we- you said that very nicely. We know everything and we don’t need help. Like, we are the smartest people. In Serbia, everyone is- knows everything. Everyone is an expert in every field, so that’s why I’m asking you is there a difference in different countries or different continents. Are some people more open to learning new stuff, because here we are very tough and it’s very hard to gain our trust, but once you gain our trust it can be a very good connection and it can be a very good relationship. But until that point, we are like oh, no, I don’t need help, I know everything the best. So, that’s why I asked you, because you have experience in working with different people. I would like to ask you one more question, that is also kind of a generalization but it doesn’t have to be strictly, so – is it easier to work with women or is it easier to work with men? Because you mentioned the word emotions many times and for women- we are- we say for ourselves that we are emotional beings and men are logical beings. But from your experience, or your point of view, is it easier to work with either gender or it doesn’t- 

Peter Hopwood: Listen, I think both- it’s easy to work with both. Men or women. What I would say about women is that- so, women, and this is a fact, this is a scientific fact, that women are more judgmental. Women are more judgmental about themselves, perhaps. About others, about other women. About how other people see them, the perception of others on themselves. So, that is- that all comes under the umbrella of emotional- those emotions in our mind, in our heads, in our hearts about the things we see, hear, touch, feel and understand. You know. How we shape our lives, you know? So, which is a good thing, so working with females it’s easier, maybe, it’s easier to get closer to the topic of emotions and how to help- certainly help women who just finding the- finding a challenge in terms of how people perceive them. Which is why often we don’t see- we see more male speakers than women. I think that this is a really important fact. There are more male speakers because they are less judgmental and they think less about how people perceive them, where as women generally- I mean, I’m not going to generalize, but generally more women would the men think about how people see them. Which is kind of a reflection – we see that often in Zoom where often women- we see women with makeup on- a woman- I don’t know, a woman not wearing makeup- you have an amount of makeup on today which is cool, right. But I’m sure you know lots of women that would never even dare to click, to log into a Zoom call without looking great, stunning. The hair, you know? So, and that’s just a perception idea. It’s how we perceive how people think about the people. So men wouldn’t, probably whatever – makeup on or not. But maybe other women they would judge. Because they’re in the same- in that same bubble. It’s not the right word, bubble, but they can understand and they’re closer to that idea. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Same place.

Peter Hopwood: So yeah. So yeah. So, emotional, emotionally it’s easier to work with women because they’re closer to their emotions and it’s easier to maybe work and guide these types of clients or- type of clients, women clients. Because they can- they’re more in touch with their emotions and they can- they’re more aware of their emotions, yeah. I would say that. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Is there any- do you have a client that you can say I did an excellent job? Like, when I first met him, he was like-

Peter Hopwood: Everybody! Everyone, I do an excellent job, Sanja.  

Sanja Milosavljevic: Of course.

Peter Hopwood: Obviously I’m working with- the real kind of- okay, working with a client who has to do- has a board meeting, let’s say or a presentation on Zoom, and you hear that they’ve done well, maybe you get to see a little bit of it, is great. The times where working with TEDx speakers for example really working with them from almost day 1, helping them craft and define and then deliver that story with impact. When you see it online on TEDx, YouTube, and you see them share that on LinkedIn and everyone is commenting, they think it’s great, and they like what they’ve shared and they feel rally proud of that short moment – TEDx is 15-20 minutes – inside my mind I’m thinking- it makes me feel proud. I’m proud to- I’m not looking for any credit at all. Because it’s what they did, this is all their work. It just made me feel good inside that I’ve- you know, I know that I helped them change that phrase or the way they deliver that last paragraph, or how the flow of everything went because of what I’ve said or what my input or my guidance or knowledge they have an even better TEDx talk than perhaps what they would’ve had before. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: No, I’m asking you this because your colleague here from Belgrade Relja Dereta I think two years ago I was on a stage, preparing for a public speaking. I was talking about my business or whatever and I was so nervous, I was sweating, I was insecure, blah-blah, you know what are the things that speakers usually have, what are the issues that speakers usually have. And he helped me in- he shared two sentences with me. Like really, two sentences. He said some simple things just to relax me a bit and I went to the stage and it was actually a good speech. I was even pleased at how relaxed I was. How everything went smooth. Even though I was still nervous, but he really helped me, so I really appreciate your work. I mean, your work and work of your colleagues. What are your plans for- for next year. Because last year showed us that we can’t just plan for some, I don’t know, 5-10 years, so what is your plan for the next year?

Peter Hopwood: Well, really to continue working, building, I’m sharing these virtual speaking and present speaking online, so I- and the more I do them, I’m learning even so much more as well. You know. So there’s all different elements in there, storytelling techniques, persuasive speech, on how we can get people’s attention quicker, and getting that emotional connection and trust quicker as well. I’ll continue to do that and that will go forward. The event industry is starting to come back, I’m- it’s really optimistic. I’ve already Slovenia last week and then Paris on Friday. Actually. And really I can go on a plane once again, last one was 14 months ago. So for me, which plays a big part of my work, is really important. So it feels optimistic and I can only see these two areas moving forward. I’ve had- you know a year, more than a year at home. Working from home. Which is good, good as well, this is all good also. But sort of really looking forward to spreading my wings again and really helping event organizers get re- have really strong event experiences but equally helping teams to get really good at using this format in the way that’s gonna help them and get more business and get better perceptions and feel more confident and feel good using this format as something cool. And it’s good and it feels good so every time you’re on there you know you’re gonna- you know you’re sharing the best you can. Yeah? So I see those two areas moving forward quite well for 2022. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: 2022. Thank you, Peter, we reached the end of our conversation. Thank you for your time. And thank you for your knowledge. And thank you for the openness to share with us things you know and things you learned and things you do for a living. So, thank you once again. 

Peter Hopwood: Thank you so much, I’ve had fun. It’s been really good for me to sort of share this and hear your views as well and hopefully whoever is listening to this some things they can walk away with and say actually that’s a good idea. I’m gonna try that. And make me feel more confident about sharing my messages on the stage or on Zoom.

Sanja Milosavljevic: On Zoom. Good people of the world, you were listening to and watching the Mondopreneur podcast. You can always follow us on Facebook, Instagram and LinkedIn and you can always subscribe to our YouTube channel, just type #mondopreneur. Stay good, stay in good health and see you next week. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Dobar dan, dobri ljudi sveta, moje ime je Sanja Milosavljević i biću vaš domaćin danas. Vi slušate i gledate podcast Mondopreneur, to je podcast posvećen preduzetnicima iz celog sveta, ali ne samo njima, već svima koji žele da čuju i vide kako se drugi ljudi nose sa novom situacijom, da pronađemo neke načine da prevaziđemo te probleme i da pokrenemo nove ideje i upoznamo preduzetnike iz celog sveta. Ceo ovaj projekat podržava Ambasada Amerike u Srbiji u Beogradu i zahvaljujući njima možemo da delimo priče zanimljivih ljudi iz celog sveta. Moj današnji gost je Peter i on je iz Velike Britanije, ali živi i radi – pa, živi u Hrvatskoj, ali radi po celom svetu. On je, recimo, primer Mondoprenera. Nadam se da ćete uživati u našem razgovoru. Zdravo, Peter – kako si?

Peter Hopwood: Dobro sam, odlično sam. Kako si ti?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Kao što sam ti ranije pomenula, vreme je konačno malo lepše u Srbiji, i svaki put kada je lepo vreme, toplo, ja se osećam odlično. Tako da sam sada super dobro.

Peter Hopwood: Apsolutno, mislim da sunčevo svetlo može sve da promeni, zar ne? I sunčevo svetlo, čak i kada nije toplo, može sve da poboljša. Ali sunce i toplota, to je najbolja kombinacija.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Obično pitam goste da nam se predstave ukratko. Šta su po obrazovanju, ima li to ikakve veze sa onim što trenutno rade i koji su njihovi hobiji. Pa, možeš li nam reći nešto o sebi?

Peter Hopwood: U redu, apsolutno. Dakle, ako sada krenemo unazad, moje obrazovanje je zapravo umetnost. Tačnije dizajn, umetnost grafičkog dizajna, išao sam u umetničku školu, na umetnički fakultet i pretpostavljam da je za mene to bilo vreme posmatranja. Posmatrajući svet oko sebe, pokušavajući da razumem sve, ono što ljudi vide i emocije i osećanja koja ljudi imaju kada nešto vide i signal koji vam daju kada vidite te stvari. Tada sam bio stvarno fokusiran na to. I tako – ako premotamo unapred do danas, to ima puno veze sa onim što radim danas. Dakle, zaista danas, kao trener govornika, kao neko ko pomaže ljudima da pronađu svoje priče, uobliče svoje priče, a zatim isporuče te ideje, te poruke na pravi način da stvore pravu percepciju, to je zaista povezano sa onim što sam radio ranije. Dakle, ja u osnovi pomažem ljudima da govore bolje na Internetu, kako da postanu zaista dobri u pozivima preko Zoom-a, kako da postanu zaista dobri u stvaranju tog poverenja i veze između dve osobe, dvodimenzionalnih, 2D ljudi kroz ekran. Što je zaista teško, zar ne? Često je zaista je teško stvoriti tu vezu i poverenje između dve osobe na Zoom-u. Dakle, ja pomažem ljudima da stvore to prisustvo, približe se percepciji koju žele da kreiraju na Internetu, isto kao u prirodi, kao TEDx i pitch terena, doslovno pomažem ljudima da svoje poruke prenesu na pravi način.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Dakle, zapravo si u kreativnoj industriji. Kao što si rekao da si studirao umetnost i – ovo je za mene umetnost. Umetnost u smislu zanata, da pomogneš ljudima da oblikuju svoje priče i da ih isporuče. To je lepo. Možeš li nam reći nešto o onome što radiš. Rekao si da ste virtuelni trener i kako je – da li je teško steći poverenje – da ljudi mogu da vam veruju da ćete rešiti njihove probleme i pomoći im da ih prevaziđu – ovaj Zoom – Cogito Ergo Zoom.

Peter Hopwood: Da, tako smo zaista pre godinu dana, pre više od godinu dana, svi bili prisiljeni – bili smo prisiljeni – da koristimo ovaj medij, da koristimo ovaj format. Da se povežemo putem ovog formata. Dakle, naši sastanci, naši- ako se bavimo prodajom, morali smo to da radimo preko ekrana, bilo da je to bio uvodni poziv, vebinar, sastanak, vođenje našeg tima ili timova. Morali smo to nekako da uradimo, morali smo da se promenimo i to putem ekrana. Što je vrlo različito, sasvim drugačiji set veština je potreban nego kad to radite uživo. Jel tako? Jer ima mnogo stvari koje su nam oduzete, u pogledu onoga što vidimo, onoga što osećamo, hemije koju možemo da stvorimo. Ako smem, ti Sanja – ti si na primer u Beogradu, sretnemo se, popijemo kafu, ćaskamo, malo se upoznamo, vidim kako se krećeš, vidiš kako se ja krećem i nekako me brže upoznaš lično, nego ovako. Ali u oba slučaja, još uvek moramo da stvorimo međusobno poverenje i poštovanje i moramo da pokušamo da se međusobno povežemo. Šta god da radimo, bilo da je u pitanju nešto lično, možda ćaskamo kao prijatelji ili je to nešto vezano za posao, to poverenje i osećanja i vezu još uvek moramo da stvorimo. Dakle, ljudi sa kojima radim – mnogi klijenti mi se obraćaju znajući da to moraju da učine boljim, znajući da moraju da se osećaju udobno, zaista udobno sa ovim formatom. Znaš? Nije nešto što je- što moraš da radiš svaki dan. Radimo to često, radimo to stalno i kada nešto uradimo puno puta, skloni smo da osećamo da znamo kako se to radi. Znamo kako se to dobro radi. Ali to nije uvek slučaj. Sve što radimo mnogo puta, naše samopouzdanje često raste jer smo to činili mnogo puta, ali opet ne mora da znači da to radimo kako treba. A iz onoga što vidim, onoga što čujem i onoga što mi kažu mnogi klijenti, posebno ljudi koji možda vodec timove, vide unutar svojih timova, možda veza nije toliko dobra koliko bi mogla biti. Nivo poverenja nije toliko dobar kao što bi bio da su povezani lično. Na primer, mnogi prodavci, možda su zaista dobri u svom poslu, imaju tu harizmu, znaju šta da kažu, kako to da kažu i u osnovi znaju kako da prodaju – kako se prodaje. Ali kada se radi o ekranu, to je drugačiji – potpuno drugačiji skup veština. Dakle, morate da razmišljate o različitim veštinama i različitim ponašanjima-

Sanja Milosavljevic: Kao koje veštine? Izvini što te prekidam-

Peter Hopwood: Reći ću ti, apsolutno, odmah ću ti dati nekoliko saveta. Uvek se seti – ovde je na ekranu vreme mnogo važnije, vrednije je i imamo ga manje nego uživo. U redu, lično, svako vreme je dragoceno. Moje, tvoje, imamo mnogo stvari u toku dana da uradimo. Ali ovde na ekranu, raspon pažnje nam je mnogo kraći. Sve što pogledamo – bilo u koji ekran koji pogledamo, bilo šta što prolazi kroz taj ekran obično je dizajnirano da privuče našu pažnju, dizajnirano da nas natera da obratimo pažnju. Netflix, film, TV šou, muzički video. Šta god da je, dizajnirano je za privlačenje pažnje, čak i na našem mobilnom telefonu, dizajnirano je da zadrži našu pažnju. Dakle, sada, na ekranu moramo brže da privučemo pažnju drugih i moramo to da radimo duže nego što bismo radili lično. Pa, to – šta to znači? To znači da naše poruke moraju biti sažetije. Naše poruke moraju biti kraće. Naše poruke moraju biti tačne. Moramo zaista da nateramo ljude da nešto osete, da nas razumeju, dobiju više – brže nego što bi to učinili uživo. Dakle, to je jedna stvar. Takođe, kada ljudi – kada gledamo u ekran, o svemu što vidimo pravimo brzi sud. Dakle, gledam te trenutno, ne znam da li neko drugi to može da vidi, vidim gde sediš, s desne strane ti stoji svetlo, imaš divan mikrofon ispred sebe, vidim šta nosiš i ovo mi daje puno signala. Vidim da verovatno danas nije hladan dan – kao što si rekla – znam da nije hladno, rekla si mi to. Po onome što nosiš vidim da je napolju toplo i da imaš sjaj na licu. To mi govori da se osećaš dobro zbog vremena, verovatno. Razumeš. Dakle, svi ovi signali prolaze. I mi moramo da delimo ove signale – delimo signale koji se zaista približavaju percepciji koju želimo da dobijemo. Jel tako? Dakle, sve što radimo sa svojim licem, govorom tela, kako gledamo u kameru, sve ono na šta smo više usredsređeni. Ovo je intimnije – ovo je intimnije nego što bi bilo lično. Verovatno ne bih gledao u tvoje lice toliko kao sada, ili ne bismo bili usredsređeni jedno na drugo kao da sedimo uživo.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Ovo mi je interesantno, jer nikada nisam razmišljala da bi ova vrsta razgovora bila intimnija od one-

Peter Hopwood: Pa, radi se o tome da imamo više – ima više stvari kada smo uživo, svašta nešto se dešava oko nas.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Ometanja.

Peter Hopwood: Apsolutno. Pozadina, gde smo, ljudi koji prolaze, vetar, buka, zvuk, kakav god da je. Ovde smo samo ja i ti. Dve kamere, a mi smo – imamo samo – skoro smo postigli cilj. Znaš. Dakle, ovaj, na ovom Zoom pozivu sada, naš cilj je da vodimo ovaj razgovor, pokušamo da podelimo vrednost, pomognemo ljudima da možda razumeju nekoliko ideja koje mogu da podelim, a koje možeš da podeliš i ti. I na kraju, da odu s osećanjem „Oh, to je bilo- uživao sam u tom razgovoru i naučio sam nešto“. Jel tako? Dakle, to je ono što mi znamo i to je ono što radimo. Da je to bilo uživo, verovatno bi se pojavile druge stvari i vreme bi išlo malo sporije i možda bismo razgovarali o drugim stvarima. Ali ovde je mnogo prisnije i kao što sam rekao, naše vreme je zaista dragoceno i moramo privući pažnju ljudi. To možemo učiniti sa malo svesti o različitim stvarima, svest o tome kako izgledamo, svest o svom poreklu, svest o tome kako se krećemo, svest o svom glasu, kako zvučimo. Jer zapamtite, naš glas je poput muzike. Dakle, muzika, kada slušamo muziku, to je emocija, zar ne? Mi smo umetnost, zar ne? Umetnost. Kad nešto pogledam, ono što vidimo jednako je nekoj vrsti emocije, zar ne? Boje? Neka vrsta emocija. Zvuk? Pa, muzika? Ista stvar. Naš glas je zvuk. I to je ista stvar. Ono što čujemo izaziva neku vrstu emocije. I mi to znamo, znamo ljude koji imaju divne glasove, znamo ljude koji nemaju sjajne glasove. Znamo ljude koji zaista brzo govore visokim glasom i znamo ljude koji su vrlo mirni sa nižim, dubljim, verodostojnim, umirujućim glasom, zar ne? Dakle, sve ovo može stvoriti emociju o tome kako se osećamo i kako donosimo odluku o tome koga slušamo i šta čujemo. I zato zapamtite, koga čujemo – pa koga slušamo – o čemu slušamo. Dakle, to je moj sud o tebi. Ili neko ko sada sluša, prosuđuje o meni, o onome što čuje. Oni donose sud o tebi, Sanja. O onome što ti- o tvom glasu i onome što čuju kada govoriš. Dakle, uz malo razmišljanja i malo svesti i rada na tim stvarima, možemo nekako da se približimo boljoj percepciji koju tražimo. Zar ne?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Slažem se. Koliko je onda važna ta emocionalna inteligencija? Mislim, lepo je ako možeš samo da ljudima daš neku vrstu veština, poput uradi ovo, uradi ono i postići ćeš svoj cilj, ali da li je važno da ja – ako sam tvoj klijent – da li je važno da imam neku vrstu razvijene emocionalne inteligencije? Da budem otvorena prema onome čemu me učiš?

Peter Hopwood: Definitivno. Apsolutno. Dakle, prva stvar je – neko ko – recimo da radim sa klijentom, a moja prva – naša prva interakcija – bilo da je preko Zoom-a ili se lično sretnemo – je zapravo da ih slušam. Slušajući kako se osećaju prema svemu, kako se osećaju prema sebi, kako se osećaju prema tome kako ih ljudi percipiraju, kako oni- priča o seb,i o tome ko su, strepnjama koje možda imaju i zašto ih imaju. Tamo gde žele da stignu. Pa, posle rada sa mnom, kojim putem žele da krenu, šta misle koje korake treba da preduzmu da bi nešto postigli ili kojim putem žele da idemo dalje. Dakle, mnogo toga je do razumevanja osobe i razumevanja da li je ona spremna za podučavanje, spremna da čuje stvari koje možda ne želi da čuje. Ili da li je spremna da čuje stvari koje su konstruktivna kritika, kako bi trebalo da idu dalje, da bi se poboljšali i da li to žele da prihvate. Dakle, neko ko to ne želi – ko oseća da je već u fazi kada je dovoljno dobar ili oseća da im ne treba nikakvo poboljšanje, ili oseća da je – znaš, dovoljno dobar, verovatno – znaš, oni nisu pravi ljudi, nažalost, nisu ljudi koji rade sa mnom. Znaš? Takođe, i veština slušanja je izuzetno važna. Dakle, slušanje u smislu nekoga ko želi da nauči ove veštine, ili bilo koje veštine, zaista, a takođe i ja sam taj koji sluša. Zaista moram da slušam. Zato zapamti, za sve dobre govornike, svi dobri, jaki govornici često su zaista dobri slušaoci. Slušaju ljude sa kojima rade, slušaju sebe, slušaju te priče u glavi. Oni ih slušaju. Možda neće morati da prihvate sve što čuju – jer ta priča u našoj glavi, taj glas koji čujemo u našim glavama uvek je najjači glas koji ćemo ikada čuti, zar ne? I često najveći influencer u našim glavama, jeste sopstveni glas. A to je teško – lako je to reći, zar ne, ali često je teško upravljati time, jer mi – neki naši glasovi su zaista glasni i ponekad moramo nekako da ne slušamo taj glas.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Ili da ih makar malo stišamo.

Peter Hopwood: Ili malo stišamo, da. Da znamo da kažemo dobro, za sada je dovoljno, poslušajmo još nešto što će nam zapravo pomoći. Tako da, slušanje je zaista velika veština, zaista važna veština koja mi je sigurno pomogla u karijeri, i dalje mi pomaže i nastaviće da mi pomaže. A takođe, ljudi sa kojima radim takođe su zaista prisutni i slušaju povratne informacije, slušaju znaš, tu emocionalnu – skoro emocionalnu temperaturu koju ti predstavljaš. Oni vide da je lično to teže učiniti preko interneta, ali lično stvarate,  mi smo ti koji stvaramo tu emocionalnu temperaturu u prostoriji. To je ono što stvaramo onim što govorimo, kako izgovaramo reči. Pa- znaš, ljudi te slušaju, pa ti diktiraš kakva je ta energija u prostoriji i na tebi je da je definišeš i podeliš. Pa tako može biti – ako se osećaš nervozno, svi ostali će se osećati malo neprijatno. Ako se osećaš – ako imaš ovako visoku energiju, većini ljudi u prostoriji, i puls će biti viši. Ne kažem da je visoka energija uvek potrebna, jer često nije, ali potrebna je neka vrsta energije.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li možeš da pojasniš malo, izvini, rekao si nešto jako interesantno. Da li možeš da objasniš zašto visoka energija nije uvek dobra stvar, da bi trebalo da bude malo niža… 

Peter Hopwood:  Da, apsolutno. Dakle, energija dolazi u različitim oblicima. Dakle, energija, samo energija sama za sebe, postoji čitav spektar energije. Možete jedva da imate bilo kakvu energiju, na primer, stvarno nizak nivo energije, trenutno ne postoji protok energije, znaš, reči izlaze, osećam se kao da me nije briga, čini mi se- iz tvoje perspektive i perspektive ljudi koji slušaju, šta ja radim ovde? Zašto sam trenutno sa tobom, Sanja? Ako je malo pojačate, do drugog dela skale, onda može biti visok nivo energije, tako da bude zaista visok i ja se stvarno trudim, možete da vidite moj govor tela i da vidite da mi ruke lagano idu ka gore, do mojih ušiju, zapravo. I možete osetiti da onim što govorim i kako to govorim pokušavam da stvorim malo više energije i kad čujete moj glas, glas je brži, ton je viši i tu je- gotovo kao da će nešto doći, nešto se događa i nešto uzbudljivo će se dogoditi. Jel tako? I ja sam uzbuđen zbog toga, zar ne? Mogu da uradim nešto tako. Ili, mogao bih nekako da krenem srednjim putem, gde usporavam i prilično sam smiren, zvučim smireno, a ono što kažem dolazi, nadam se, usredsređeno. Tako da znam šta želim da kažem. Moje pauze dolaze nakon svake fraze ili zareza, ja dišem nakon svake fraze. Zvučim kao da mi se sviđa to što govorim – uzbuđen sam, uzbuđen sam zbog onoga što ću reći, i to nekako čuješ, čuješ osmeh na mom licu. Smešna fraza, zar ne? Čuješ osmeh na mom licu. Kako se čuje osmeh? Ali možeš. Čuje se osmeh, zar ne? Čuješ osmeh na mom licu. I moj glas je fokusiraniji i mirniji, niži, dublji, verodostojniji glas. Ali fokusiran sam, jer želim da mi verujete i želim da sledite moje reči. I želim da se osećate poput- znaš, znam o čemu pričam, verodostojan sam i nešto- ovo je ozbiljno, ovo je važno i to je dobra stvar. To je nekako poput fokusirane energije. Pokušavate da dobijete tu fokusiranu energiju, ne većinu vremena, ali možete je pomešati. Ponekad vam treba malo više energije, ponekad možda malo manje kada je to zaista možda ozbiljna ili emocionalna tema, spustite je odmah. Ali zaista morate nekako da odaberete energiju i definišete kakvu energiju želite da delite i šta je relevantno za vašu publiku, šta joj treba. Šta žele, kako hoće – jedan primer, na primer, radim na mnogim konferencijama kao MC, kao domaćin. Većina ljudi bi pomislila da je u redu, trebalo bi da imamo domaćina sa mnogo energije, domaćina koji možda ima harizmu i domaćina koji je samopouzdan. Te tri stvari su dobre, ali nisu uvek potrebne.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Izvini, da li možeš da objasniš? 

Peter Hopwood: Da. Dakle, na početku konferencije, a to je vreme kada ljudi ocenjuju konferenciju, jer je to prvi deo. Prosuđuju o meni kao domaćinu, kao lice događaja i oni su – žele da se osećaju uzbuđeno jer je početak dana. Možda su kupili kartu, možda je neko drugi kupio kartu za njih, ali oni su tu, uložili su vreme da budu tamo, žele da budu sigurni da će dobiti vrednost. Dakle, ja … dakle, moja uloga je zaista da pružim dobru, usredsređenu energiju govoreći im zašto su tu, govoreći im ili deleći s njima šta će od tog događaja dobiti, tako da do kraja dana ili kraja drugog dana, odu znajući više o ovome, ovome ili onom, ili osećajući se sigurnije u ovo, ovo i ovo. Ili da se snažnije i samopouzdanije kreću kroz trenutne industrijske trendove, ili nešto tome slično, u redu? Ali to je energija. To je dobra energija, osećaju se dobro i ljudi će – ljudi će videti osmeh na mom licu i čuti osmeh na mom licu, u redu? Tokom dana, neposredno pre nego što recimo predstavim drugog govornika, a njegov govor je, recimo, vrlo ozbiljna tema, ili je njegov govor prilično emotivan, ili je njegov govor zapravo – ne treba da se stvara visok nivo energije. Kada to najavljujem, neću koristiti visok nivo energije. Moraću da se smirim i pripremim ljude, emocionalno, za ono što sledi. To je veliki posao i recimo kada predstavljate, kada uvodite govornike. Kada pripremam ljude, emocionalno, za ono što sledi. Ako je taj sledeći govornik – taj sledeći govornik je možda osoba visokog nivoa energije, koji skače, koji je angažovan, harizmatičan tip govornika. Tada je moja uloga da to i ja  uradim, uradim taj uvod, nateram ih da se osećaju dobro, da budu uzbuđeni, predstavim sledećeg govornika, njegovo ime, desi se prasak, on izlazi na scenu i ljudi su spremni. Na kraju dana, često je to vreme kada ljudi imaju puno informacija, kada su preopterećeni, ponekad imaju previše informacija. Pa šta im treba? Zaista im je potreban skoro kao rezime najboljih delova konferncije. O važnim stvarima o kojima treba da razmišljaju. Dakle, spustite nivo energije i podelite kratki, jednostavni, vrlo jednostavni pregled na vrlo jednostavan način koji oni mogu da razumeju i mogu da ga se sete. Znaš, sve što je jednostavno, možemo razumeti brže i bolje i više nam ostaje u pamćenju. Bilo šta složeno, sa velikim rečima, dugim rečima, dugim objašnjenjima, teže je zapamtiti i upiti. Tako zaista jednostavne kratke rečenice, nateraju ljude da razmišljaju dok ne odu sa tim jednostavnim idejama. Dakle, stvarno je potrebno znati kako da izmerimo i definišemo energiju koju moramo da podelimo. Dakle, nije uvek kada pomislimo na energiju, često razmišljamo samo o ovoj vrsti visokog nivoa energije i ljudima sa visokim nivoom energije. Ali nije to, više se radi o fokusiranoj energiji i odabiru prave vrste energije za publiku i za kontekst.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Hvala ti. Imaš li klijenate – ili si imao situacije da jednostavno ne prihvatiš klijente ili kažeš da ne želiš da radiš s njima jer ne znam, ne sviđa ti se njihova energije, ili je osoba egomanijak, ili – ovo ne ide – samo ćete gubiti vreme, bez obzira na novac koji možeš da zaradiš. Da li si imao takve situacije?

Peter Hopwood: Ja sam – pa, u redu. Na početku svoje karijere i siguran sam da i mnogi ljudi koji ovo slušaju, zaista je teško reć,i ne, zar ne? I zapravo prihvatate sve. Dakle, svi, prihvatate svakog klijenta i onda naučite, vrlo brzo naučite da energija koju uložite u rad sa nekom osobom, ta gnjavaža – iz različitih razloga, možda su jednostavno – veza nije tu . I osećate se možda neprijatno, ili su oni – možda su vrlo kritični. Ili nisu spremni za podučavanje. Nisu spremni, nisu u svom umu spremni, ono o čemu smo ranije razgovarali. Oni osećaju spremnosti da prihvate nekoga da im pomogne da napreduju. Da? Ali tokom godina sam naučio – znaš, naučio sam da rad sa ljudima koji žele da ih treniram, koji su dovoljno otvoreni, dovoljno raspoloženi da upijaju nove ideje, to su ljudi zbog kojih se osećam dobro. Osećam da radim …

Sanja Milosavljevic: Dobre stvari.

Peter Hopwood: U mislima se osećam dobro u odnosu na ono šta radim. To je zaista važno imati. Jer bez obzira na novac, bez obzira na to koliko vam plate. Ne znam, možda je to zaista, zaista mnogo novca.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Pošteno.

Peter Hopwood: Često, ako – ponekad znaš – i jedini način da to saznaš je iskustvo i oni prvi sastanci. Znaš, stvarno postavljanje pitanja koja će vam dati odgovore koji će vam pomoći da odlučite da li je ta osoba prava. Znaš? I oni često rade isto, često to rade na početku. Verovatno gledaju – verovatno, znaš, zovu me. Možda su kontaktirali nekolicinu drugih trenera govornika, ljude iz iste industrije i na kraju krajeva ta veza koju imate sa tom osobom, potencijalnim klijentom, određuje da li ćete raditi zajedno. I kao što znaš, neki ljudi nisu pravi za vas. Sa nekim ljudima više volim da ne radim i najbolje je da ih čak uputim na svou konkurenciju. Jer znam da nisam mogao da im dam stvari koje su im potrebne, posebno za njih, i ono što bi oni cenili, pa neki ljudi cene – i ti to znaš i siguran sam kao i mnogi ljudi koji ovo slušaju, svakako preduzetnici i ljudi koji su u poslu. Za neke ljude možete učiniti sve što možete, podeliti zaista vredne ideje, puno energije i zaista preći preko granice velikodušnosti da biste im zaista pomogli da stignu tamo gde žele i oni to zaista cene. Isto to možete da uradite za nekoga drugog i u njegovom umu, znaš, možda nije bilo te zahvalnosti, možda ne cene toliko. A tu je i ta ravnoteža i dobro je znati da ta ravnoteža postoji. Znajući to – znaš, različiti ljudi će ceniti različite stvari, ali sve dok pokušavate da date tu vrednost i na početku iznesete šta ćete pokušati da uradite i šta ćete raditi, šta ćete dati. Gde oni žele da budu. I znaš – to je glavna stvar. Dakle, to je poput one unutrašnje ideje u vašoj glavi o vrednosti koju delite i poznavanja te vrednosti i prihvatanja da neki ljudi možda ne cene tu vrednost.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, kao i u životu.

Peter Hopwood: Da li to ima smisla?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, naravno. Pomenuo si reč “vrednost” mnogo puta. Šta – znam da je smešno pitanje i da je sada malo i kliše, ali koje su to nove vrednosti, na primer u tvojoj branši. U tvojoj industriji.

Peter Hopwood: Nove vrednosti? Možeš li…?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Kao, šta sada treba da pružiš svojim klijentima? Kako si uspeo da zadržiš svoje klijente ili kako si stekao nove klijente? Jer prošle godine niko, većinu vremena, nije ništa radio. Kao da, ako bih … izvini, ali da sam imla priliku da idem na obuku prošle godine, imala sam problem da odem na sastanak, na sastanak uživo a i svi su bili pod maskama. Dakle, mogli smo da vidimo samo oči, ali ne i izraz lica – ceo izraz lica. Dakle, to je bio problem za mene. A da sam te poznavala, recimo da sam htela da me naučiš kako da čitam druge znakove i kako da sklopim posao. Pa šta- kako si morao da se promeniš? Kako je tvoj metod morao da se promeni?

Peter Hopwood: Pa ja- apsolutno, sve je prešlo na Internet. Sve je otišlo na Internet. I na početku sam bio prilično skeptičan prema tome. Jer sam samo oko 25% svojih obuka odradio preko interneta. Sve ostalo je bilo licem u lice. I znaš, dosta sam putovao. I to je odjednom prestalo. I tako je to bio veliki šok za mene i veliki šok za moje finansije, moje poslovne finansije, znaš. Stvarno je bilo teško. I sada se kajem. Žao mi je što sam na početku, prvih par meseci, nisam se fokusirao više na ono što radim trenutno. Trebalo mi je šest meseci – što je dugo – šest meseci da nekako shvatim, hej, zapravo, zaista mogu pomoći ljudima da postanu dobri u ovome. Da upotrebim veštine koje sam već stekao i samo da ih prenesem i izmenim  kako bih pomogao ljudima da podele prave signale na mreži. Mnogi su slični. Postoje stvari koje se malo razlikuju. Trebalo je to da uradim mnogo ranije. Ali jednom kad sam to uradio, onda je to stvarno krenulo i trenutno zaista cveta. Zapravo čak i bolje nego ranije, što je zaista čudna stvar, ali je dobra stvar. I sada smo efikasniji. Mi smo efikasniji. Mogu da se povežem sa više – mogu da imam više klijenata tokom dana nego što sam ikada imao. Industrija događaja kao i MC i kao voditelj, i to se polako vraća. Odlazim u studija gde sam samo, ja u studiju. I kamera.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Kao hibridni formati.

Peter Hopwood: Da, da, dakle, nije baš da postoji neka publika, samo studijska ekipa, kamera, a to je profesionalni studio, koji je u tu svrhu namešten. Dakle, efikasnost je dobra stvar, ali efikasnost za sve nas, svakoga ko želi – recimo, ko želi da radi sa mnom, sa tobom ili sa trenerom, sada ima više mogućnosti da nađe više ljudi. Ljudi mogu više da gledaju na mreži, ima mnogo video snimaka, ima ih više – možete više da čujete ljude. Umesto da samo recimo, imate možda veb stranicu i nekoliko video snimaka kao ranije, danas postoji poprilično mnogo – ima podkasta, pa ako neko razmišlja o tome možda, znaš, radeći sa mnom, verovatno može da ode na Google, ukuca moje ime tamo, i iskočiće puno stvari. Podkasti – možda čak i ovaj podkast. U redu. Moja veb stranica je još uvek u izradi, ali imam sve ostale video zapise i stvari koji vam mogu pomoći da donesete odluku. Dakle, nekim ljudima treba samo malo, neki ljudi će možda želeti da prođu kroz mnogo sadržaja, da gledaju sve ostale, gledaju konkurenciju, a to im onda pomaže da se odluče. Neki ljudi moraju da prođu kroz taj proces. Tako da mogu da im dam to, mogu da dam- tu je, na Internetu je, ako im to treba. Dakle, mislim da su klijenti više- nisu skeptični, ali ima više ljudi koji sigurno rade ono što ja radim danas. Mnogo je toga – mnogo više ljudi to radi. Više ljudi se oseća samouverenije na Internetu, dele svoje poruke, pa ima više ljudi koji rade podkaste, poput tebe Sanja. Više je ljudi koji dele svoje poruke, više ljudi koji kreiraju video zapise, pa … i više je ljudi koji su treneri. Neki od njih – svi su različitih razmera. Neki od njih osećaju se dovoljno samopouzdano da mogu da pomognu ljudima i zaista pomažu mnogim ljudima ili onima koji već toliko godina pomažu ljudima i zapravo zaista prave iskorak i započinju svoj posao, znaš, zaista kreiraju posao na polju treninga, pomažući klijentima da se približe svojim ciljevima. Dakle, mislim da sigurno ima mesta za sve i da sve što radim na Internetu mi daje mogućnost da se povežem sa većim brojem ljudi. Tako da, ja zapravo više ne moram da putujem do klijenta. Iako, nadam se da hoću i nadam se da će se to vratiti. Uživam u putovanjima.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Svi se tome nadamo –

Peter Hopwood: Volim avanturu, avantura je super i to je sjajno, ali što se tiče efikasnosti, poput događaja, ne mogu – ne bih mogao da radim kao trener – mogao bih da uradim na primer šest trenerskih poslova u mesecu, ako bih putovao kod klijenta, realno. Za mesec dana, sada mogu da uradim duplo više. Ako moram. Tako da… Mnogo je izazova, ali zapravo ima mnogo koristi. Mnogo dobrih pogodnosti.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Recimo da se trenutno predstavljaš ljudima sa Balkana. Da li postoje – postoje li kakve kulturološke razlike među ljudima – a u vezi su sa tvojim poslom, u vezi sa podučavanjem. Postoje li razlike između ljudi u Aziji ili na Balkanu ili u Velikoj Britaniji, recimo? Da li treba da imamo drugačiji pristup prema svima ili je tvoj posao nešto što ima univerzalnu vrednost?

Peter Hopwood: Mislim da nema puno univerzalnih stvari, da budem iskren. Mislim da su mnoge stvari iste, ljudi žele da ih neko sasluša, želimo da izgradimo to poverenje, tu vezu, moram da pokažem da sam empatičan i slušam šta im je potrebno, da shvate to i da im bude jasno kako ću im pomoći u tome. Razlike, mislim … u redu, možda mi nešto prvo prvo pada na pamet. Ovde sam 21 godinu, ovde u regionu. I moja deca su Hrvati, imam posao ovde u Hrvatskoj i prirodno je da za 21 godinu provedenu ovde, da sam zavoleo Hrvate. Pa, ja volim ljude iz regiona. Jedno je možda – ali menja se i postaje sve bolje, sigurno je, kad sam prvi put stigao ovde, postojala je ta ideja, često na Balkanu, možda, postoji osećaj da nam nije potrebna pomoć.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Zato te i pitam. Izvini, ali zato te to i pitam. Jer mi imamo stav da smo najpametniji ljudi na svetu. 

Peter Hopwood: Da, možda. Ne, ne- možda ne na celom svetu, ali mislim … da, mi nekako znamo stvari. Da, ne moramo da dobijemo pomoć, sve je u redu. Ali stvar je u tome da nam svima treba pomoć, svima nama. Znaš? I to je samo – to je tanka linija između saznanja ili prihvatanja da vam je potrebna pomoć i želje da vam neko pomogne da napredujemo, čak i ako ste u dobroj fazi, možete biti zaista u dobroj fazi, ali uvek je dobro – tako da, industrija u kojoj radim, u smislu govora, u smislu deljenja poruka, u pogledu deljenja poruka na pravi način, svi moramo da se poboljšamo. Čak i ja u ovoj fazi, u kojoj jesam, zapravo imam mentora, drugog trenera govornika, i pomažemo jednan drugome, jer oboje vidimo stvari u drugome koje sami ne vidimo. Zar ne? Dakle, da, da se vratim na odgovor, da, mislim da sigurno na Balkanu postoji ideja – da li nam zapravo treba pomoć, pitanje je koje se nameće sigurno na početku i mnogo puta je to bila prepreka između mene i rada sa ljudima. Pa kad naiđete na tu prepreku, kada postoji to pitanje, takva vrsta pitanja otvara čitave druge ideje o vrednosti. Dakle, ako mi ne treba pomoć, onda cena koju tražite ili naknada koju želite od ovoga posla ima manju vrednost jer pomoć ljudima nije potrebna, znaš. Pa bih rekao da postoji i to, ali to se menja, sigurno menja, što je dobro, i da. Bio sam- šta bi ti rekla? Da li bi se složila sa mnom? Ne znam, reci mi šta misliš?

Sanja Milosavljevic: Ne, rekla sam to jer-

Peter Hopwood: Kao neko ko je iz Beograda. Iz Beograda si, zar ne? 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Da, ja sam iz Beograda. Ovde na Balkanu, ne volim da uopštavam, na primer. Ali mi- rekao si to vrlo lepo. Znamo sve i ne treba nam pomoć. Kao, mi smo najpametniji ljudi. U Srbiji svi sve znaju. Svako je stručnjak u svakoj oblasti, pa te zato pitam da li postoji razlika u različitim zemljama ili na različitim kontinentima. Da li su neki ljudi otvoreniji za učenje novih stvari, jer ovde smo vrlo teški i vrlo je teško steći naše poverenje, ali kad jednom steknete naše poverenje, to može biti vrlo dobra veza i može biti vrlo dobar odnos. Ali do tog trenutka smo kao oh, ne, ne treba mi pomoć, sve najbolje znam. Zato sam te pitala jer imaš iskustva u radu sa različitim ljudima. Želela bih da ti postavim još jedno pitanje, koje je takođe vrsta generalizacije, ali ne mora biti stroga, pa – da li je lakše raditi sa ženama ili je lakše sa muškarcima? Budući da si mnogo puta spomenuo reč emocije, a za žene – mi smo – za sebe kažemo da smo emocionalna bića, a da su muškarci logična bića. Ali iz tvog iskustva ili sa tvog stanovišta, da li je lakše raditi sa nekim od polova ili ne-

Peter Hopwood: Vidi, mislim da je isto – lako je raditi sa oba pola. I sa muškarcima ili sa ženama. Ono što bih rekao o ženama je da, žene, a ovo je činjenica, ovo je naučna činjenica, da žene više osuđuju. Žene možda više osuđuju sebe. O drugima, o drugim ženama. O tome kako ih drugi ljudi vide, percepciji drugih ljudi o njima. To, dakle, sve što dolazi pod kišobran emocionalnog u našem umu, u našim glavama, u našim srcima o stvarima koje vidimo, čujemo, dodirujemo, osećamo i razumemo. Razumeš. Kako oblikujemo svoj život, znaš? Što je dobro, pa je tako lakše raditi sa ženama, možda je lakše približiti se temi emocija i kako pomoći – svakako pomoći ženama koje to tek pronađu – pronaći izazov u tome, u smislu kako ih ljudi doživljavaju . Zbog toga često ne vidimo – vidimo više muških govornika nego žena. Mislim da je ovo zaista važna činjenica. Ima više muških govornika jer manje osuđuju i manje razmišljaju o tome kako ih ljudi doživljavaju, a žene generalno, neću generalizovati, ali uglavnom bi više žena nego muškaraca razmišljalo o tome kako ih ljudi vide. Što je svojevrsni odraz – to često vidimo u Zoom-u, gde često vidimo našminkane žene – ne znam, žene koje se ne šminkaju – vidim da nemaš mnogo šminke, što je u redu, jel tako. Ali siguran sam da poznaješ mnogo žena koje se nikada ne bi usudile ni da kliknu, ni da se prijave na Zoom poziv, a da ne izgledaju sjajno, zapanjujuće. Da imaju frizuru, znaš? To je samo ideja percepcije. To je ono kako mi doživljavamo šta ljudi misle o drugim ljudima. Dakle, muškarci ne bi, ne bi možda primetili da li je neko našminkan ili ne. Ali bi žene možda sudile. Jer su u istom – u tom istom balonu. To nije prava reč, balon, ali one mogu da razumeju i bliže su toj ideji.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Ista stvar.

Peter Hopwood: Da, da. Dakle, emocionalno, emocionalno je lakše raditi sa ženama jer su bliže svojim osećanjima i lakše je možda raditi i voditi ovu vrstu klijenata ili – tipova klijenata, klijentkinje. Jer one mogu – one su više u kontaktu sa svojim emocijama i mogu – one su svesnije svojih emocija, da. Rekao bih da je tako.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Da li postoji klinekt za kojeg možeš da kažeš uradio sam odličan posao? Na primer, kada si ga prvi put sreo-

Peter Hopwood: Svi, baš svi! Ja odlično radim svoj posao, Sanja. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Naravno.

Peter Hopwood: Očigledno radim sa – ljudima – u redu, na primer, radim sa klijentom koji mora – ima sastanak odbora, recimo ili prezentaciju na Zoom-u, i čujete da su dobro prošli, vidite možda deo, i to je sjajno. Primeri rada sa TEDx govornicima, na primer, zaista rada sa njima od prvog dana, gde sam im pomagao u izradi i definisanju, a zatim pričanju priče koja ima uticaja na slušaoce. Kada to vidite na Internetu na TEDx-u, YouTube-u i vidite kako dele te snimke na LinkedIn-u i svi komentarišu, oni misle da je to sjajno i sviđa im se ono što su podelili i budu ponosni na taj kratki trenutak – TEDx traje 15 do 20 minuta – i mislim – mene to čini ponosnim. Ponosan sam što a uopšte ne tražim priznanje. Jer je to što su radili, to je sve njihovo delo. Osećam se dobro što sam… znaš, znam da sam im pomogao da promene neku frazu ili način na koji iznose poslednji pasus ili kako je tekao ceo govor, zbog onoga što sam im rekao ili sugestije ili neke smernice ili znanja, a zbog toga je njihov govor na TEDx bio bolji nego što je bio pre toga. 

Sanja Milosavljevic: Ne, ovo te pitam, jer tvoj kolega, ovde iz Beograda Relja Dereta, mislim da sam se pre dve godine pripremala se za javni nastup. Govorila sam o svom poslu i još o nečem drugom i bila sam tako nervozna, znojila sam se, bila sam nesigurna, i slično, znaš već koji su to problemi koje govornici obično imaju. I on mi je pomogao – podelio je dve rečenice sa mnom. Zaista, dve rečenice. Rekao je neke jednostavne stvari samo da me malo opusti i izašla sam na scenu i to je zapravo bio jedan dobar govor. Čak sam bio zadovoljna koliko sam bila opuštna. Kako je sve prošlo glatko. Iako sam i dalje bila nervozna, on mi je zaista pomogao, tako da ja zaista cenim tvoj rad. Mislim, tvoj rad i rad tvojih kolega. Kakvi su ti planovi za sledeću godinu? Jer nam je prošla godina pokazala da ne možemo da planiramo za nekih, ne znam, 5-10 godina, pa kakav je tvoj plan za sledeću godinu?

Peter Hopwood: Pa, plan je da nastavim da radim, gradim, delim ove virtuelne govore i prezentujem govore preko Interneta, tako da ja – i što ih više radim, sve više učim. Razumeš. Dakle, to su svi različiti elementi: tehnike pripovedanja, ubedljiv govor, o tome kako možemo brže da privučemo pažnju ljudi i brže postignemo te emocionalne veze i odnos poverenja. Nastaviću to da radim i to ću razvijati. Industrija događaja počinje polako da se vraća, i zaista sam optimistična. Već sam bio u Sloveniji prošle nedelje, a zatim u Parizu u petak. I zaista mogu ponovo da letim avionom, poslednji put je to bilo pre 14 meseci. Tako da je to za mene, a to igra veliki ulogu u mom radu, zaista važno. Tako da se osećam optimistično i vidim samo kako se ove dve stvari kreću unapred. Proveo sam- znaš, godinu, više od godinu dana kod kuće. Radio sam od kuće. Što je dobro, takođe dobro, ali i ovo je takođe dobro. I nekako se zaista radujem ponovnom širenju krila i pomaganju organizatorima događaja da steknu zaista jaka iskustva sa događaja, ali i da  pomažem timovima da postanu zaista dobri u upotrebi ovog formata na način koji će im pomoći da dobiju više posla i da poboljšaju percepciju i da se osećaju samopouzdanije i da se osećaju dobro koristeći ovaj format kao nešto cool. I dobro je, pa svaki put kad ste negde znate da ćete – znate da delite najbolje što možete. Zar ne? Tako da vidim da se te dve stvari prilično dobro kreću unapred u 2022. godini.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Godina 2022. Hvala ti, Peter, stigli smo do kraja našeg razgovora. Hvala na vremenu. I hvala na znanju. I hvala na otvorenosti da sa nama podeliš ono što znaš i ono što si naučio i ono čime se baviš. Hvala još jednom.

Peter Hopwood: Hvala ti mnogo, baš je bilo zabavno. Zaista je bilo dobro za mene da ovo nekako podelim i da čujem i tvoje stavove i nadam se da ko god ovo sluša može da ode i kaže da je ovo zapravo dobra ideja. Pokušaću nešto od ovoga što sam čuo. I učiniće da se osećam sigurnije kada delim svoje poruke na sceni ili na Zoom-u.

Sanja Milosavljevic: Na Zoom-u. Dobri ljudi sveta, slušali ste i gledali podcast Mondoprener. Uvek nas možete pratiti na Facebook-u, Instagramu i LinkedInu i uvek se možete pretplatiti na naš YouTube kanal, samo ukucajte #mondopreneur. Budite dobri, budite dobrog zdravlja i vidimo se za nedelju dana.